This, of course, is straight from the Maureen Down School of Rhetoric. Adopt an attitude of disdain, toss out some snide, unsupported, opinions, and act as if an actual argument has been made. Somehow, Dowd was able to parlay such yammerings into a career at the NYT (actually it probably wasn't hard), but it doesn't wear as well without a byline lending legitimacy.

Tell me what testable predictions that have been made as a result of Intelligent Design Creationism?

My gripe is that Bachmann's nearly singular focus on the divisive gay marriage issue was a major reason that no state bonding bill was passed in one of the lowest interest periods in our lifetimes. That is irresponsible in my mind and I would think it would be to conservatives who want government to be as efficient as possible. The pragmatic approach would have been to realize that the gay marriage issue is too contentious to resolve quickly (regardless of your position on it) and make sure you bond for what you think is needed in the state.

You're changing the subject from the points Corbett made very effectively.

First, let's eliminate one of your manipulative strawmen; its not "Intelligent Design Creationism", it's "Intelligent Design".

Second: No, Eva, I have a much better question; Tell me what testable conclusions about the origins of life, and of intelligence (to say nothing of the other myriad intangibles of human life) that are empirically supportable via science as we know it today?

Oh, yeah - and Corbett's points were indeed very effective at ignoring vast swathes of context, as are indeed most people who pine for the "good old days" when Republicans were just like Democrats with suits and stockholm syndrome.

I just wanted to point out that Corbett is both "terrified" and "embarassed", but he thinks we're the ones who need to "calm down". this is why we don't take lefty hysterics seriously.

I've always wondered, if there is no evolution, why do we have appendixes?

That's one of the big strawmen in this argument.

I don't find evolution and the biblical (albeit allegorial) story of creation to be especially at odds with each other. I don't happen to believe in creationism - the notion that the world was created in seven literal days, that Eve sprang from Adam, yadda yadda. But I find nothing discongruous about believing that everything evolved from a divinely-created origin.

So questions like "if you don't believe in evolution..." are fundamentally useless at best (and abusive wastes of time at worst); empirical evidence points toward some form of evolution (unless you believe G-d created a huge, elaborate joke, which I don't really suspect He did), but has a huge gap at the beginning big enough to drive divine creation through. Or not. But the notion of divine creation can be no more empirically ruled out than it can be confirmed, knowing what we know now.

Care to rephrase?

You can't experimentally prove or disprove the existance of God - and that's not what science tries to do.

Intelligent Design Creationists don't just take the approach you do though - they specifically have a problem with species changing over time into new species.

I'd suggest the book: Finding Darwin's God - by Ken Miller - it's a very readable discussion by a christian who is also a scientist. Miller goes through the different Creationist claims - Morris and Gish (the Young Earth Creationists) and Johnson and Behe (the Intelligent Design Creationists) and refutes their arguments methodogically. He then also fisks the "Gods of Disbelief" among scientists. It's a very interesting read.

Interesting Mitch how you can't answer the question about any advances that have been made as a result of Intelligent Design Creationism - or Intelligent Design as you like to call it.

A fair amount of genetic engineering is taking advantage of manipulating selective advantages to coax microbes into creating materials like insulin.

You're confusing adaptive evolution with macro-evolution. Nobody is arguing that plants and animals cannot adapt. Genetic engineering has been going on since Bablyonian times.

Any discussion of the merits or demerits of Intelligent Design have to recognize that, while intellectually akin to the Fundamentalist Christian idea of "Creationism", it is not identical.

For one thing, it is not a concept proposed only by certain Christians: the Raelian UFO cult also famously supports ID curriculum be taught in schools. The Raelians believe that the Intelligent Designer is a space alien, not a divine being, but their arguments are similar; and if you are going to support any sort of "Biblical" ID, in order to be intellectually honest, you have to also support the speculation that the designer is a little green man from Mars. If you can't, then your ideas about ID probably are religiously based, not scientifically based.

To discount Evolution from the teaching of Biology is like discounting Gravity from the teaching of Astronomy; the origins and mechanisms of Evolution and Gravity are not fully understood, but their effects are manifest.

Thanks Mitch. Your hysterical response makes my point about any thoughtful discussion. You might be surprised that I agree with our President about his stance on Iraq, Social Security and our role in the world. Unfortunately, you and your kind in have no tolerance for any one that is not in lockstep with your flat earth beliefs. Apparently a civil conversation is not what any of you are looking for. If I were bulemic I would just turn on the news every night and watch the leaders from both parties to create the gag reflex I need.

Comparing Frau Bachmann to Abraham Lincoln proves how far you have gone over the edge. You say you don't support her one hundred percent yet. Apparently you are only concerned with voting your pocket book. That is a common theme with the Republican Party. Lets expand gambling to raise money inspite of the fact that your platform expressly forbids it. You know what people are that line their pocketbooks taking advantage of others weakness.... Pimps, drug dealers and whores.

The future of this country depends on a great education for all people. Vouchers and underfunding are a blatant attempt to deny equal education. To refuse to acknowledge the educational needs our newly arrived immigrants is immoral.

The last time I was at the Statue of Liberty I did I correctly read, " Bring me your tired, hungry, huddled, white, English speaking masses yearning to be free."

You ask how I dare call the Christian Right uninformed?

That does't take daring. Only a willingness to read all of Leviticus. If the Christian Wrong did, they could have Frau Bachmann and her lap dog, Representative Vandevere propose a constitutional ammentmant to reinstate the death penalty for disrespectful children, adulturous mates and petty thieves. That's what the Bible calls for.

They could tack it on to their present bill that wants to tramp all over the First Ammentment and control the thoughts of our students and professors.

The pendulum is swinging back to the middle and your angry outburst which are always seeded by fear prove it. What are you afraid of? Common sense, decency to one another, respect for all human life regardless of race color or creed.

Troll? googling.. sadly he's real. Corbett, all that bile is going to mess up your stomach. You need to take a vacation from real estate and go spend time with your grandkids or something.

"Gideon" how clever you are. While you are sitting around waiting for the "Rapture" why don't you do something more productive. You are going to have some real surprises and disapointments.

"Thanks Mitch. Your hysterical response makes my point about any thoughtful discussion."

No, Corbett, your snide, condescending response proves mine. I objected to the attitude so many "moderates" take - that "I'm above all your partisan twaddle" twaddle that infused your first comment. You're doing it again, of course - my response was not hysterical, merely impatient.

" You might be surprised that I agree with our President about his stance on Iraq, Social Security and our role in the world."

It would only have surprised me if I'd drawn any conclusions. The only conclusion I could draw about you is that you seem to think you sit on a higher plane of intellect than the mere proles that so vex you.

" Unfortunately, you and your kind in have no tolerance for any one that is not in lockstep with your flat earth beliefs."

And there you go. You have no idea what I believe, because I very rarely hint at it on this blog, and you don't know me.

However, references to "flat earth" imply you're an anti-religion bigot.

" Apparently a civil conversation is not what any of you are looking for.'

And there you go again. You didn't get the answer you were looking for, so we must be a herd of gabbling cretins.

"Comparing Frau Bachmann to Abraham Lincoln proves how far you have gone over the edge."

That sentence shows that you, indeed, are the one that's over the edge. "Frau"? Oooh. A Nazi reference. Now I know I'm dealing with a larger intellect.

And there was no comparison, other than saying she is a decisive politician.

" You say you don't support her one hundred percent yet."

I didn't give a number. Also - and I realize this is a subtle point - I've repeatedly said my support is irrelevant. I live in CD 4.

" Apparently you are only concerned with voting your pocket book. That is a common theme with the Republican Party."

"Apparently"? Hm. You're clairvoyant, too?

I vote my nation's safety first, my enlightented self-interest second.

" Lets expand gambling to raise money inspite of the fact that your platform expressly forbids it."

Er, Corbett? I've opposed gambling at every turn.

You've never actually read this blog before, right?

" You know what people are that line their pocketbooks taking advantage of others weakness.... Pimps, drug dealers and whores."

Er, yeah. Like I said, I've always opposed state gambling.

"The future of this country depends on a great education for all people. Vouchers and underfunding are a blatant attempt to deny equal education."

There are so many ways to attach that passage. Vouchers are a blatant attempt to make "equal" education worth the time, money and effort. And our schools are overfunded; the money is just spent badly.

" To refuse to acknowledge the educational needs our newly arrived immigrants is immoral."

Er, Corbett? What on earth are you talking about?

"The last time I was at the Statue of Liberty I did I correctly read, " Bring me your tired, hungry, huddled, white, English speaking masses yearning to be free.""

Again, what on earth are you talking about? For starters, I've ever written word one about educating immigrants. Secondly, I've done more to educate immigrants, personally, than you ever will.

"You ask how I dare call the Christian Right uninformed?"

Yeah, but the question was partly rhetorical. You are parrotting talking points. To the "enlightened" on the left and the alleged center, Christians are always drooling mouth-breathers. Why discuss it?

"That does't take daring. Only a willingness to read all of Leviticus. If the Christian Wrong did, they could have Frau Bachmann and her lap dog, Representative Vandevere propose a constitutional ammentmant to reinstate the death penalty for disrespectful children, adulturous mates and petty thieves. That's what the Bible calls for"

Except that nobody's calling for killing gays - and your slander is not unexpected. She opposes gay marriage. I've gone back and forth on that issue - "flip flopped", if you prefer.

"They could tack it on to their present bill that wants to tramp all over the First Ammentment and control the thoughts of our students and professors."

I'm dying to know, Corbett - what would you do without lists of talking points?

"The pendulum is swinging back to the middle and your angry outburst which are always seeded by fear prove it."

Um, Corbett? You're the one who's bursting out. I wouldn't dream of guessing if you're angry or just gapingly ill-informed and, judging by your comments about religion, a smug, self-satisfied bigot to boot. Like I said, I won't guess.

"What are you afraid of? Common sense, decency to one another, respect for all human life regardless of race color or creed."

I am demonstrably more commonsensical than you. I treat others plenty decently; I have put more of my ass on the line defending gays against violence than you ever will, among many other things. As to human life - well, you have no clue.

As to ill-informed trolls who pollute my comment section with smug, self-satisfied bigotry and condescension, I smack it down regardless of taste, pallor or screed.

Thank you for enlightening me. As is always the case you see yourself in everyone else and don't even recognize it. You impose your behavour on every one you don't agree with. Apparently your highly evolved intellect did'nt leave you much room for an equally evolved set of morals or self conciousness. A mirror won't help you. If this state can accept someone like Senator Bachman by ignoring here bigotry to protect our pockets so be it.

-30-

Thank you for enlightening me. As is always the case you see yourself in everyone else and don't even recognize it. You impose your behavour on every one you don't agree with. Apparently your highly evolved intellect did'nt leave you much room for an equally evolved set of morals or self conciousness. A mirror won't help you. If this state can accept someone like Senator Bachman by ignoring here bigotry to protect our pockets so be it.

-30-

Mitch writes:

As to ill-informed trolls who pollute my comment section with smug, self-satisfied bigotry and condescension, I smack it down regardless of taste, pallor or screed.

EY: So is anyone who comments in a way that disagrees with your world view a troll?

Mitch lists "shrieking points":

She's an "out" Christian

EY: This is a strawman. Bachmann promotes anti-gay bigotry in the name of christianity. She regularly says gays are pedophiles - then says she has "nothing against the homosexual". That's bull when she calls all of us pedophiles.

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