I, for one, welcome our screaming overlord.

Apparently the beatings will continue until morale improves.

Look, I got to see far more of Dean for far longer than I wanted, and I'm far from having a good opinion of the guy and even farther from even considering voting for him, but I have to say:

He is a fiscal conservative by liberal democrat standards. He *did* ride herd on the flaming socialists that comprised the VT Democratic party and he did it much better than the Republicans in the House and Senate have done with Bush. If all I were concerned about were the deficit, I'd say he should be put in the White House. This is not to say that he isn't flamingly liberal in his spending and governance habits (he nearly made VT a single payer health care system by default since he drove nearly all the insurers out of the state), but he is fiscally sensible.

He's smart enough to know that in VT the "third rail" of politics is gun control. He adopted a stand that said VT didn't need it, but other places should be allowed to have it if they wanted it. Now, I happen to believe that the 2nd Amendment means what it says, but there are quite a few liberals who feel otherwise and I'll give him the benefit of the doubt on that.

Tough on crime? Bzzzzt. No way. See the "community sentencing" that he put in place. Sheer lunacy.

Pro-business? Again, relative the socialists in VT, yes. But VT has one of the worst business climates in the country with incredibly high income tax rates, property tax rates that are out of control (and rising fast), and utility rates that are astronomical. So he fought to make VT a place that merely put business in concrete boots rather than his legislative cohorts who wanted to also throw them in the river. Did I ever tell you the story of IBM trying to build their new semiconductor fab in VT? They've already got one there so it's not like they're unknowns or bad corporate citizens, but it's old having been there 25 years and really can't be upgraded anymore. They approached the VT gov't to try and get permits and were basically told it would take 5 or more years and the outcome was uncertain. They mentioned to NY that they were having trouble in VT. NY gave them the permits in under 20 days and put together an incredible package of incentives that were more than the entire state budget of VT. Dean didn't even *try* to keep IBM, and much of the reason is that they were viewed as a power base that needed to be brought under control -- or at least that's what his allies said.

Look, if he succeeds the Democratic party will be unabashedly liberal, and liberal in a way that will only make the Teddy Kennedy wing of the party happy. I hope he manages it, because if he does manage to build it into the image of the VT Democrats we won't have to worry about Democrats returning to power in our lifetimes. But that's a big danger, too. I remember Ohio, where I grew up and essentially the Republicans have had control since the 60s. They're now in a position where they've grown fat, stupid, and corrupt and are in danger of losing their control just from the disgust of the governed. We NEED a second party that can challenge with ideas and patriotism, but I don't see the Dean fringe able to do that.

The *only* reason Dean succeeded in VT is that the press there was just as liberal as he was and shielded him. He played the press wonderfully, enhancing his reputation by riding herd on his more lunatic fringes. And the press ate him up and protected his less savory sides. You never got to see the thin skin or the sheer meanness of the man until he hit the national stage. He'll have to get his temper under control if he's to "succeed" in rebuilding the party in the image that he and his cohorts seem to want.

Hey Mitch, don't forget about History's examples of how apealing to the the extream has worked to gain power: Stalinism, Nazi-ism, Kmer-rouge, Hutus, Taliban.

Some on the left have gone so far over the edge that they don't want compromise anymore. Some of those people run the Democratic Party.

I still think it's funny when people refer to Howard Dean as "extreme" or "angry."

I just happened to watch portions of Zell Miller's infamous speech tonight - now THAT guy is lunatic-angry!

How can a guy that is being described as a moderate by some and not the guy we saw on the campaign trail be anything but?His speech in January had him quoted as saying that he "hates Republicans and everything they stand for." That pretty much means that states rights,pro-business,pro-gun and pro-life issues are detested by this "moderate" from Vermont in his own words, unless he's had an epiphany since January."Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain for I am the Great and Powerful Oz...."

“He is a fiscal conservative by liberal democrat standards.”

During his 11 years as governor of Vermont, Howard Dean more than doubled and nearly tripled his State’s budget. “fiscal conservative by liberal democrat standards” indeed.