The Point and its Missing
Flash from Centrisity took a whack at the Northern Alliance's and Craig Westover's criticisms of Nick Coleman's Maxfield columns yesterday.
Flash says:
There are no fewer then a half dozen members of the Right Wing Axis and their surrogates bashing away at this issue, and only one who is making any reasonable attempt to focus on the kids, albeit his goal is still the same as the rest.
Now, Flash, this is just plain absurd. I'm every bit as "focused on the kids" as you are - I have as many kids in the Saint Paul schools as you do, and you know it.
But Nick Coleman's article wasn't "Focused on the kids" in the first place; it was focused on trying to drum up illiterate, unfocused hysteria over school funding. It was saying "if you're critical of the way the way the school district spends money (lots of it) and teaches your children (spotty), you're a rancid bastard. Just shut up and pay what you're told to".
As Craig Westover correctly pointed out, we need to distinguish between Public Education as an ideal and as an institution. The ideal - having a population that is educated enough to sustain a democracy - is something everyone supports.
The institution? That's another thing. I've been writing about the issue for years, of course, from my own odd perspective (I'm a conservative; my father taught high school English for nearly forty years; I didnt' come to this issue as a reflexive critic, although my experience with the SPPS in the past few years has made me much more critical of way the SPPS' system works). And after all that, I really just have more questions:
- Why are we spending nearly 50% per student more than North Dakota spends, and getting the same test scores (note: I think test scores are a fairly worthless means of measuring accomplishment, but they're all we have).
- If you answered "But North Dakota doesn't have the same problems that urban Minnesota schools have" - you're partially right. Now - why does Minnesota have those urban problems? What philosophy led us to the point where urban schools have to deal with all the problems, while suburban schools have to build additions to hold all their money?
- In a system that spends $11,000 a year on students, why do classrooms do without books, copier paper, programs that actually reach students (music, art, athletics) and impact the students and public, while the administration relentlessly expands? Cynics would say that it's because the district and its (DFL-dominated) board are passive-aggressively passing the pain for any "budget cuts" on to the parts of the system the public sees most immediately, th parts that affect the children as opposed to the Administraton of the Minnesota Federation of Teachers. Cynics say that. On that account, I've become one of them.
More after the holiday.
Posted by Mitch at
December 22, 2004 09:31 AM
| TrackBack
""Now, Flash, this is just plain absurd. I'm every bit as "focused on the kids" as you are""
I know, I was just pointing out that it doesn't show through during the Nick bashing. It's the method! You guys have worked up such an anti-Colman fervor that I believe you have lost sight of the real issue.
I linked to Westover only because he was the one person of the Right Wing masses that at least tried to keep it in perspective.
"I have as many kids in the Saint Paul schools as you do, and you know it."
Hmmmm, do you have a child hiding somewhere that I don't know about *grin*
I have contacted Mr. Westover on this issue. I want to be enlightened and educated. I am objective and open minded. Even Craig admits 'the devil is in the details' and I want to see how those details will play out.
I've watched, both inside and outside, what 50 million in budgets cuts have done to our urban education system. I'm willing to look at alternatives, but feel we are better served working within the system, then bashing it to a pulp and then rebuilding from scratch.
I voted against that last two Referendums. But with another 24.3 million shortfall on the table, it would be a tought sell to get me to vote against the next one
Flash
Posted by: Flash at December 22, 2004 12:02 PMThe Maxfield issue is a multi-facted one. There's the highly questionable reporting by Coleman, the on-going attempts to misrepresent the situation in public education in order to increase funding, and ALSO reform of the education system. Everybody doesn't have to concentrate only on the latter. We'll each follow our own inspiration and let's see where we end up.
The problem with Flash's input is it's entirely fact free. It attempts to end all debate by saying - "ignore those conservative critics and their arguments, I care about the children!"
Coincidently, "caring about the children" also benefits the system his income depends on. Am I supposed to believe that doesn't influence his advocacy of enhancing the status quo?
Pardon my cynicism, but until public school employees like Flash start dealing with the larger questions and start engaging in a logical manner, he's only providing Coleman like distractions.
Posted by: Saint Paul at December 22, 2004 01:02 PMThe Maxfield issue is a multi-facted one. There's the highly questionable reporting by Coleman, the on-going attempts to misrepresent the situation in public education in order to increase funding, and ALSO reform of the education system. Everybody doesn't have to concentrate only on the latter. We'll each follow our own inspiration and let's see where we end up.
The problem with Flash's input is it's entirely fact free. It attempts to end all debate by saying - "ignore those conservative critics and their arguments, I care about the children!"
Coincidently, "caring about the children" also benefits the system his income depends on. Am I supposed to believe that doesn't influence his advocacy of enhancing the status quo?
Pardon my cynicism, but until public school employees like Flash start dealing with the larger questions and start engaging in a logical manner, he's only providing Coleman like distractions.
Posted by: Saint Paul at December 22, 2004 01:02 PM"ignore those conservative critics and their arguments, I care about the children!"
I don't believe I am saying ignore, in fact I am directly engaging those dissenters in an attempt to get past the 'vendetta' and discuss the very issues you point out.
""Coincidently, "caring about the children" also benefits the system his income depends on. Am I supposed to believe that doesn't influence his advocacy of enhancing the status quo?""
When I voted against the Technology referendum a few years ago, I knew that my specific position would be in jeopardy if it failed. I did not allow my personal situation to effect my concern for fiscal responsibility at the time. My take on the present situation is simply that I have seen the efforts made by SPPS to function in a reduced fiscal environment.
""Pardon my cynicism, but until public school employees like Flash start dealing with the larger questions and start engaging in a logical manner, he's only providing Coleman like distractions.""
I believe my efforts have been logical. I have contacted participants in this debate to provide specifics regarding implementation of their proposals.
I refuse to get caught up in a pissing contest, which is what I feel has happened between Nick Coleman and his adversaries. It isn't a very good use of time, column inch, and bandwidth.
Flash
Posted by: Flash at December 22, 2004 01:28 PM"I linked to Westover only because he was the one person of the Right Wing masses that at least tried to keep it in perspective."
Ahem
http://www.scsuscholars.com/2004_12_01_scsu-scholars_archive.html#110356184993588438
and http://www.scsuscholars.com/2004_12_01_scsu-scholars_archive.html#110374305791858731
(Mitch, get trackback.)
Posted by: kb at December 22, 2004 01:31 PMMy apologies to the King. It is clear he tried to steer away from the side story, and stick to the issue at hand!
Flash
Posted by: Flash at December 22, 2004 02:43 PMWe need to get past the personal and ad hominem, and start dealing with the issues without suspecting people's motives. Not only does it not get us anywhere near solving the very obvious problems, it is a pointless exercise because almost no one in this debate, in my opinion, is driven by the baser motivations attributed to them.
I deal with a lot of "service providers" in my daily life. One thing that I have concluded over decades of this is that, despite the best intentions and hard work of everyone involved, sometimes problems do not get fixed, because good people cannot overcome a bad system.
Our public education system is a bad system because there has been no accountability and no competition for far too long. Yes, "rich" people can send their kids to private schools, or move to "better" school Districts, but there is a monopoly on serving the less-than-rich. As we all know, a monopoly charges high prices for shoddy goods, and the government does not permit other monopolies to exist. If the public schools cannot compete (and I believe they CAN, but if and only if they must) they should perish-- not because they are "government entities" but because they are harming children and wasting tax dollars, and if it were just the dollars most of us wouldn't care.
Posted by: J. Ewing at December 23, 2004 08:14 AMI like your website alot...its lots of fun... you have to help me out with mine... nokia6630
Posted by: Iren at June 30, 2006 09:02 PMVery interesting & professional site. You done great work. nokia6630
Posted by: floyd at July 1, 2006 02:36 PM