I went online to watch Governor Walz March 25 video explaining why the
Stay Home order was required. I think it’s useful to remember why we
started down this road.In the video, Governor Walz explained that if we did nothing, upwards of
74,000 Minnesotans of all ages would die, from 6 months to 90 years
old. It was already too late to “flatten the curve;” testing didn’t get
started early enough. All we could do was push the peak out, delay it
until we could get ready for the surge of Covid-19 cases that the
computer model predicted was coming. If we did nothing, the surge would
hit in 6 weeks (May 8th). If we did nothing, 2.4 million Minnesotans
would be infected, 85% of them mildly, 15% requiring hospitalization,
and 5% requiring ICU care.I’m not clear if Governor Walz meant 5% of the whole 2.4 million =
120,000 people in ICU; or 5% of the 15% who are hospitalized = 18,000 in
ICU. Either way, we only had 235 ICU beds at the time of the first
order. We didn’t have enough ICU beds, ventilators, masks to care for
that many ICU patients. Thousands would die, untreated.If Minnesotans heeded his order to Stay Home, we would slow the spread
of the infection. 2.4 million were still going to get it, but not right
away. That gave us time to prepare for the ICU surge. With Stay Home
in place, the ICU surge would be delayed until late May or June. By
then, we’d be ready for the 120,000 (or 18,000) ICU patients. We’d
convert arenas, stadiums, motels, into temporary hospitals providing as
many as 1,000 ICU beds. Still had to work on getting ventilators and
masks, etc., but if we had enough time to prepare, we’d save lives.
Governor Walz asked for two weeks to delay the surge so we would have
time to prepare. That’s why the original order lasted two weeks.I went online to watch Governor Walz video explaining the extension of
the Stay Home order. He said we were making progress. The infection
curve was pretty much flat. That’s good because it buys us time to
prepare for the surge, and there is a surge of hospitalizations coming.
We’re going to need a MINIMUM of 3,000 ICU beds starting in mid-May,
could last into July, could need more beds.Current ICU bed capacity at the time of the extension was 1,000 but we
can double it in 24 hours, triple it in 72 hours. Another 3,000 beds
coming online in alternate facilities but not for Covid patients, those
are for displaced patients from other hospitalizations. According to
the model, we now have plenty of ICU beds but we’re still facing a
shortage of ventilators. We have 2,500, we need 3,000, we have none in
reserve, they’re all in use. They’re on back-order. Minnesotans need
to stay home to delay the hospitalization surge until the back-ordered
ventilators arrive. And there’s still a shortage of masks. Supply
chain disrupted world-wide. Minnesotans need to stay home to delay the
hospitalization surge until mask supply arrives.The Governor assured us the experts were constantly updating the model.
Ro increased from 2.4 to 4.0 (formerly, we thought each infected person
transmitted it to 2.4 people, now it’s assumed to be 4 people, spreads
much faster than thought). Hospitalization severity and length of stay
also adjusted (didn’t say up or down). If we drop restrictions, the
surge of hospitalizations comes rushing toward us and we’re not ready.
Thousands will die. Stay Home to save lives.My thoughts:
The plan originally was sold on the basis that this virus attacked
everybody, babies to elderly, we’re all equally at risk of dying from
it. Data from around the world (and around Minnesota) suggest that’s
not true. This virus attacks the same people as every other influenza
virus – seniors and those with a compromised immune system. The
scariest basis for the order, is gone.The plan originally was sold on the basis that a two week delay would
suffice, we’d have time to prepare for the surge of cases. Because the
whole thing depends on a surge of cases slamming our hospitals in a few
weeks. The Governor’s models confidently proved it would happen, we
were going to get slammed, it was only a matter of time. Except . . .
Dr. Fauci of the CDC now says he expects this to be similar to a bad flu
season, maybe 60,000 dead nationwide. And nobody else is seeing a
surge. If there’s no surge coming, then the entire basis for the order
is gone.Assuming the surge hits as planned in May, Governor Walz says we’ll need
3,000 ICU beds and we’re ready for that, but still not enough
ventilators or masks. No word on why that’s such a problem. If the My
Pillow guy can make masks, why can’t Minnesota figure out a way to
acquire them? Can’t we ask idled machine shops and metal workers and
backyard mechanics to cobble up machines? We only need a couple of
thousand more ventilators – how hard can it be? I’m guessing the
Governor means “FDA certified and approved” which, obviously, takes time
and raises the cost. How many patients would say, “Oh, no, don’t treat
me wearing that un-certified mask, leave me to die.” Can’t we by-pass
the certification process for this world-ending emergency?The plan was sold on the basis that we’d be saving lives. The math
doesn’t work for me. Assuming the best numbers, if 18,000 will need ICU
beds but we only have 3,000, then when the surge hits we’re still short
thousands of ICU beds so all of those people are going to die. By my
math, the Stay Home saves 2,765 lives (the difference between 235 ICU
beds before and 3,000 ICU beds after). And who are those people? Based
on experience to date, they’re nursing home patients with preexisting
conditions who are going to die soon, anyway.The cost of providing this end-of-life care is incredible. 375,000
Minnesotans have applied for unemployment. Our unemployment rate is
over 11%. And those are only the people who qualify. Small business
owners, restaurant owners, landlords, independent contractors,
commissioned sales – they don’t get unemployment. The Governor says
that with Minnesota’s generous unemployment benefits coupled with the
federal $600, many people actually will make as much or more then they
did before. I’ll believe that when I see it.Point is, we’re shutting down the entire state for months, costing
millions, destroying wealth and lives and careers, turning citizens
against each other, betting a surge is coming and that we’ll be able to
buy a short end-of-life extension for a few thousand old folks. That
might be a wise public policy trade-off, or it might not. But it’s
something that ought to be debated in public, with the costs and
benefits weighed, not decided unilaterally and continued indefinitely.I call on the Legislature to hold public hearings on whether to continue
the state of emergency, or to end it.Joe Doakes
When Norway – as top-down communitarian a state as there is, which had a hard, sharp attack of Covid and a sharper reaction to seeing Italy and Spain’s agony, and closed down hard (and suffered more deaths than Minnesota, so far, with a similar population) – is moving to lift its lockdown now, even given their immense savings and the ability it gives them to ride out crises, that should tell us something.
Wally is allegedly listening to and working with Mayo Clinic? Didn’t they tell him about this?
https://www.fox9.com/news/positioning-not-ventilation-could-be-key-to-covid-19-treatment
That’s a great synopsis, but I think we all knew it was never about flattening the curve (at least not entirely). It was more about Mn acting cool and proactive like our older brothers who live on the east and west coasts (who had real problems at the time). It also struck me when Walz mentioned during the March 25 briefing that it was ‘already too late to flatten the curve’. If his fancy, accurate data said it was already too late, why tank the economy? No follow up reporting on the matter.
Side note, it’s also funny watching the local news around here constantly bringing up WI virus numbers because they are so much more entertaining than the Mn numbers. If only we bordered a state with a high density, high population city (as WI does with Chicago being next door), we would be cool too…
For those who prefer the opinions of a Professional Journalist to a mere amateur scribbler, DJ Tice has a nice column up on the Star Tribune site today in which he echoes my conclusion.
When Joe Doakes and DJ Tice agree on something, you KNOW the flying pigs can’t be far behind.
When dealing with the public, politicians have learned to make the narrative as cryptoclastic as possible. 1/3 of the population is near illiterate, has no memory of what happened yesterday and couldn’t understand it if they did; they’ll follow along by rote recitation. Another 1/3 will be in favor of whatever fuckery is being perpetrated and will make good use of the undecipherable narritive. Between them, that 2/3 will effectively keep the remaining, outraged 1/3 silenced.
That works as long as the ratios hold firm. When your fuckery effects the lucid 2/3 equally and badly, those too cognitively deficient to realize they have been screwed will pick up on the general mood and join in without knowing why.
Leftist degenerates are all in on shutting down the country because they believe it hurts Drumpf, but it’s just starting to dawn on them that Drumpf is on the cusp of an historic triumph, and they are getting hurt just ad badly, or worse than Trumpsters.
I can foresee a sea change in the coverage from the media in the aftermath of this catastrophe. There will be timelines like Joe’s featured on CNN, the NYT, WaPo et. al. Many nominally leftist states will eject their leftist leadership at the next opportunity…heads will roll.
BTW…I’ve seen estimates as high as 40% reduction in US GDP for Q1 & Q2. Q3, Q4 will undoubtedly be better, but it’s not going to come anywhere near making up for lost productivity. We’re in for a shellacking, and it’s gonna last years.
Many unemployed are not going to find jobs a week, or a month after the end of martial law, and the earnings of those that do (in hospitality and services) will continue to take a beating because the consuming public will be broke for the foreseeable future.
All this will trickle up to government come tax time. What do you think leftist degenerates like the ones in control of SP & MPLS will do when they’re faced with a 50% cut in revenue? Will they dismantle the leftist empire they’ve so carefully built the last 40 years; strip it down to providing services like fire and cops? lol, no.
They will inflict pain like you’ve never seen. Unable to raise the tax rate, they will impose fees for everything you do and they will raise those already in place. After all, if you’re doing *anything*, you must be working and earning, right? So you’ll be happy to pay to keep the progressive utopia afloat.
When you get a bill for a $15.00 beer, buck up cupcake. those triply redundant departments of human rights ain’t gonna pay for themselves, and lake Beady Monkey Scum needs new signs.
Still 15%
You are correct. In fact, two Democrat Senators, including Senator Tina Smith from Minnesota (much to my surprise), have broken from the party narrative and are chastising their colleagues in the house for their inaction on additional funding for small business payroll loans. I think that Lucifer is looking for a jacket.
I’ve been trying to find data on how many nursing home residents typically die in any given month in Minnesota. So far my Google-fu hasn’t been up to the quest, but I’ve seen several articles from 2019 about MN investigating the deplorable conditions and lack of care in MN nursing homes.
With the preponderance of COVID deaths concentrated in nursing homes, with a median age in the 80s, I’m just wondering how many people would have been expected to die in these facilities even without the virus. Help me, Obi Wan MP or JD Windu.
The people dying in Minnesota average 87 years old, and while I don’t wish for anyone to die, we can’t keep everything shutdown because people close to 90 are dying from COVID-19.
Did Emery just say something the majority of folks on SITD can agree with!? Lucifer is looking for a jacket…
We are in a lockdown because Western governments have found themselves severely wanting in the face of a true crisis. Korea or Taiwan found themselves managing this crisis in an orderly fashion, with no draconian measures resulting in a Depression-era like unemployment rate, because their governments are smart and hard-working enough to quickly locate and isolate most of the known cases of Covid-19 without requiring undue sacrifice from their citizens.
Not so for America or most of Western Europe. And coincidentally, it is Germany, another somber mercantilist state much like those of East Asia, that is seeing the quickest success against Covid-19. Germany is set to reopen small businesses next week and schools on May 4.
Here’s why: Germany has a comprehensive testing system that allows officials to identify and isolate the infected at an early stage. It has the capacity to run 650K tests a week.
What would testing tell us, that would enable us to determine whether to lift restrictions?
Serious question. Can you give a serious answer?
The relative success of SOME Asian countries in fighting covid-19 is explained by their experience with SARS and other communicable diseases originating in China.
In terms of deaths per capita, the US is not significantly better or worse than other Western nations.
What covid-19 antibody testing would do is give us another data point. This could be done with a random sample, no need to test everyone. It is my understanding that this research is just beginning.
On an individual basis, what would it mean if I could certify that I had covid-19 antibodies?
That depends. The virus mutates, so it is possible to test positive for the antibody, but still be susceptible to infection. It is not a silver bullet.
What we need to do to reopen the economy is to switch from trying to “flatten the curve” (which has been done), to protecting vulnerable populations.
I know that Emery is under instructions to jack this thread to the usual ranting about Orange Man Bad, but I thought I’d a couple of tweets that are related to this post – btw, very good, JD – and why various government officials are kinda acting like deer in the headlights.
From Jim Geraghty:
I think a lot of people are psychologically unprepared for a situation where there are no good solutions, only varying degrees of bad — a no-win situation.
and Dave Reaboi:
Because the people have gotten soft, hyper-emotional, have lost their virtue and have been maleducated.
Emery and MP – Serious question:
What would testing tell you that would enable you to decide it’s time to lift the Stay Home order?
How much testing, of whom, for how long, before you’d expect to be able to draw conclusions from the test results?
Joe — assuming that the antibodies provide limited immunity, testing of some individuals could help us open sooner. Medical workers and care facility workers could benefit. Maybe some retail workers with close contact with multiple customers (hookers, for example).
Testing for the presence of an infection is of limited usefulness. “Hey, I’ve got a fever, sneezing fits, and ragged cough, but I test negative for covid-19, so it’s off to work I go!”
Really?
Anyone with a fever should self-isolate. That advice would do as well as universal testing. You could come down with the virus on the way home from taking the test, for goodness’ sake.
“Improved coronavirus testing and tracing of infected people’s contacts will help the country eventually be able to ease up on measures such as stay-at-home orders.” ~ Dr Anthony Fauci
So what is Fauci recommending? What does “improved” testing mean? More tests? For everyone? For people with flu-like symptoms? For health care workers? For people who may have been exposed to someone with covid-19?
As it is, Fauci’s advice is like a dentist saying that we should all floss more often.
Still not getting it, guys. I need you to explain this in small words.
Option 1: Joe Doakes gets tested on April 17th. He does not have an active case of Covid-19 as of that date. Therefore, as to him, the Stay Home order no longer applies; he can go anywhere, do anything, even though he might acquire the virus at a later date.
Option 2: Joe Doakes gets tested on April 17th. He has antibodies for Covid-19. He is immune; therefore, as to him, the Stay Home order no longer applies; he can go anywhere, do anything.
Option 3: Joe Doakes gets tested on April 17th. He does not have an active case but he does not have antibodies, either. He remains at risk. The Stay Home order still applies to him.
Option 4: is there one? What is it?
The only way to “reopen America” is to comprehensively test, diagnose, and care for people who have the virus, while also finding a way that asymptotic people can safely move about the world without endangering others, assured that they, too, will be cared for if and when needed.
Remember shaking hands? At least we probably never have to do that again.
But Emery, we know who needs treatment for the virus – the people with a fever and cough. “Asymptomatic” means, by definition, they have no symptoms and therefore do not require treatment. No test required for either of them.
I still don’t understand how testing people tells you anything you didn’t already know, nor how it helps you reach a decision when to lift the Stay Home order.
If you wait for everyone in the world to be tested, isn’t that going to require something like 7,000,000,000,000 tests? How long do you think this nation can remain on lockdown?
If it’s some number less than that, how many tests are needed; what result must they show; and why is that the right number?
At this point, simply repeating “More Tests” sounds like an excuse, not a plan. I want to know the plan.
There two means of testing, Joe Doakes.
A throat swab test for the virus itself.
A blood test to check for the antibodies.
Both tests are known to provide a significant number of false positives and negatives.
Having the antibodies provides only limited immunity.
Tell me again, Dr. Fauci, how testing will help us open up sooner?
More than seven billion, Joe Doakes. Tests need to be repeated, because your exposure to the virus may be repeated.
We know who the vulnerable populations are. Protect them, and those who must come into contact with them. Everyone else, go about your business. Wear a mask & use purell, if you like, but you will get it eventually.
let’s see where we are at May 1st, it looks like then things can start getting back to normal around here. if Walz continues the lockdown past then I think we can start getting a better idea where we are. Remember everyone that this is a novel virus whose behavior is 100% unknown.
POD, every year there are new viruses & mutated viruses. That is why you get a new flu shot every year.
Suppose we beat this thing at a high economic cost. We could get another pandemic next year with a new virus. What do we do then? Go back to living in caves?
This is stupid. We know who the vulnerable populations are. Protect them, work on a treatment that keeps people out of the hospital, and go about your business.
MP, this is a once in a generation/century type of event. The last time this happened was 1918. The reason we did this is because we were caught off guard and didnt have a good national stockpile (Thanks Obama Admin). This can absolutely never happen again with a national shutdown and wont, and if someone does try there will be civil unrest. The problem is that everyone was scared by the early model projections that turned out to be wildly off base because well, it’s a novel virus. Look I agree we need to open up and if we knew a month ago what we know now we wouldn’t have had a national shutdown. Mistakes were made everywhere by everyone. Not a goddamn person can say they got this one right. We need to learn from our mistakes and make sure this doesn’t e or happen again
^^ Trump’s been in office since 2017 and had plenty of time to replenish the stockpile if he considered it essential.
Woolly the Oracle: Americans confuse patience with liberty — they have none of the former and plenty of the latter. A limited attention span is not to be confused with an expression of liberty.
This is gibberish:
Woolly the Oracle: Americans confuse patience with liberty — they have none of the former and plenty of the latter. A limited attention span is not to be confused with an expression of liberty.
I guess the people protesting front of Walz’s house were asking for more patience? They want to restore the liberties guaranteed by the constitution, which includes the right of assembly.
There is a pandemic, small by historical standards. In pandemics, you quarantine the sick, not the healthy.
Everything is proceeding as I have foretold.
If you do not lift the restrictions, you will have more unrest. And then the restrictions will be lifted anyway.
Emery, Obama depleted it and then chose not to restock it and didn’t tell anyone. It’s not Trumps job to clean up after Obama on everything, he has had to do it in most places though you idiot
‘The parachute has slowed our rate of descent; we can take it off now.’ ~ Woolly the Oracle
November 2019, U.S. intelligence officials warned a contagion was sweeping through China’s Wuhan region, changing the patterns of life and business and posing a threat to the population, according to four sources briefed on the secret reporting.
Novel coronavirus pandemic detailed in a Nov. intelligence report by the military’s National Center for Medical Intelligence (NCMI), according to two officials familiar with the document’s contents.
It raised alarms because an out-of-control disease would pose a serious threat to U.S. forces in Asia — forces that depend on the NCMI’s work. And it paints a picture of an American government that could have ramped up mitigation and containment efforts far earlier to prepare for a crisis poised to come home.
The Trump Administration Is Stalling an Intel Report That Warns the U.S. Isn’t Ready for a Global Pandemic
https://time.com/5799765/intelligence-report-pandemic-dangers/
I guess I don’t really understand Emery’s comment above. Is it Trumps fault that the US wasn’t prepared for this pandemic? If this happened 4 years ago, would Obama magically have been prepared with ICU beds and extra ventilators? Is he inferring that every hospital should have already had all of the supplies on hand to address a novel virus and GLOBAL pandemic? What if instead of a respiratory illness, everyone was coming down with blood infections which require dialysis as a treatment. Do we have a stockpile of those on hand at all times to treat that pandemic? Who would have paid for all those unnecessary supplies?
It would be foolish to say anyone was 100% prepared for this thing. The government and a lot of private institutions run on lean principles which generally entail a robust supply chain with on time deliveries. That way you don’t need to store massive amounts of inputs or products which depreciate on your books and weigh down a business/institution.
If Trump realized there was a real problem at the end of January, why did he do almost nothing for the whole month of February?
The heavy toll in the US is linked to the failure to enact widespread measures like mass testing and social distancing early enough to prevent the virus from taking hold. The outrageous number of sick and dead is also due to Trump’s denial there was a serious problem coming and his outright lies claiming its all under control back in February. The U.S. then had ample time to see what was coming, as China writhed under the pandemic in January and then Europe began suffering just weeks later.
The U.S. squandered this precious lead time that could have been spent building testing capacity and stockpiling medical supplies that are now hard to find. By Feb. 26, Italy was locking down whole towns and regions beset by the virus. But that same day, Trump said at a White House press briefing that the U.S. had the situation “so well under control.” There were only 15 cases of coronavirus across the country, he said, and “we’re going very substantially down, not up.” There can and should be no forgiveness for Trump’s negligence and falsehoods.
For political purposes, Trump continued to listen to his economic advisors instead of medical experts until the virus was widespread.
Emery on April 18, 2020 at 6:07 am said:
‘The parachute has slowed our rate of descent; we can take it off now.’ ~ Woolly the Oracle
I never wrote anything like this.
Mitch, Are you going to allow Emery to simply make up quotes from other commenters? This is not the first time that he has done this.
I don’t mind if Emery paraphrases or mischaracterizes something I’ve written (it’s a free country), but courtesy & common usage requires that he not use quotation marks.
I had thought that double quotation marks were usually used to quote sentences from passages/given sources, nouns/things (“Westminster Bridge”, “alliteration”, or “voice” regarding its usage in poetry), as well as some less common/important uses including being snarky and using them to indicate a sarcastic remark.
From the TIME magazine article linked by Emery:
“As worrying as the current global outbreak of the coronavirus disease COVID-19 is, it is hardly the only threat the U.S. faces worldwide. Other dangers flagged in the 2020 report, according to the two sources, include Iran’s return to nuclear enrichment, North Korea’s accelerated launching of missiles and the increasingly urgent national security risks posed by climate change.”
In other words, it’s the standard fortune teller’s pitch: mention several possible threats equally; claim genius for mentioning the one that happened; ignore all the ones that didn’t happen. It’s also used by stock market experts and now, by Deep State intelligence officials, the same people who set up Trump for impeachment by knowingly using false information.
Emery, of course, ignores all the reasons to disbelieve (starting with the fact it’s in Time magazine) because, hey, Orange Man Bad so that proves it’s all true.
Reality TV is a circus, not a policy.
Yes, Joe Doakes, we have to consider the evidence we aren’t looking for and so we will not take into account.
In Kona. last week, they had an outbreak at a fast food joint. Among the crew, not the customers. Eight people infected in a short amount of time (still no deaths or hospitalizations, tho).
But what about the work crews in similar crowded conditions that had one or more people with the virus where it did NOT spread?
There’s always a tweet.
Five weeks ago.
“The Fake News Media and their partner, the Democrat Party, is doing everything within its semi-considerable power (it used to be greater!) to inflame the CoronaVirus situation, far beyond what the facts would warrant. Surgeon General, “The risk is low to the average American.” ~ Donald J Trump @realDonaldTrump 3/9/20
Can’t wait til this one goes to the SC:
https://www.nj.com/coronavirus/2020/04/woman-charged-for-organizing-protest-of-murphys-coronavirus-stay-at-home-order.html
An ordinary citizen, charged with organizing a political protest against an open-ended, government declared “State of Emergency”?
Trump fomenting civil disobedience in a pandemic against his political enemies. Is he the poster child for mental illness or pure evil?
These folks can protest all they want and go ahead and open their businesses. But who’s going to show up? The majority of people in this country are very scared. When I go to Costco, I see more individuals (of all age groups) wearing masks and gloves than I have in the past few weeks.
It doesn’t matter what these protesters want. It’s not their decision in the first place. What is the point of demanding to open your business when there are no customers?
Any journalist who covers these “stay at home” protests as organic rather than coordinated right-wing astroturfing needs to seriously consider another line of work.
Even Emery has noticed that I have been amazingly prescient about the course of the lockdowns.
Via Insty:
Top Ten Surprising Consequences of Covid-19 Hysteria:
1: Democrat governors rediscover federalism.
2: Wanna-be totalitarians can’t help but unmask themselves.
3: Trump gets a daily platform to smack the media around (watched by millions).
4: The CDC is exposed as just another dysfunctional gov. agency.
5: FDA, same as above.
6: WHO, same as FDA, CDC.
7: The US media is in China’s pocket.
8: “Models” completely useless except to frighten citizens.
9: We now know Nancy Pelosi has a $24,000.00 fridge.
And the 10th most surprising consequence of the Covid-19 hysteria? Donald Trump was right about China the whole time, and everybody who didn’t know it before knows it now.
Looks like Trump is running out of scapegoats…
Americans at World Health Organization transmitted real-time information about coronavirus to Trump administration ~ Washington Post
I think it is important to understand “WHO knew what when” but our Government’s response to remove funding is basically just a blame game and to deflect.
Every day we learn something about why the US government was slow to react to this (this article told us that the US seat on the WHO Executive is vacant) and it gets to basic policies and their insular nature that allowed this to happen.
There were so many checks that have been removed or allowed to lapse in the last few years that has allowed COVID-19 to flourish.
It really is shameful.
Emery thinks that he is getting fair, unbiased “news” from the WaPo.
Hilarious!
Garbage in, garbage out.
I read where South Dakota Governor Kristi Noem recently used her special relationship with Jared Kushner to secure a significant shipment of hydroxychloroquine, which means:
a) The Trump administration figured out it didn’t work and they were looking for a rube to load it off on, and
b) South Dakota is going to get its malaria epidemic under control.
South Carolina will begin opening shops & beaches next week.
I’ve written that one of the markers of Trump Derangement Syndrome is that all bad things must be traced to Trump. Get rid of Trump, and the bad things go away.
And to the TDS victim, anything that comes from Trump must be bad. So if Trump says maybe it’s worth looking into treating people with hydroxychloroquine, it must only not be worth looking into, it must be POISON! And so our news media, uncritical on all things Trump, dutifully reports that a woman has poisoned her HUSBAND AND HERSELF WITH THE EXACT SAME STUFF TRUMP SAID WOULD HEAL HER!!
Protests in Encinitas: http://maggiesfarm.anotherdotcom.com/archives/34903-Free-the-people;-sheepies-stay-home.html