My neighbor and commenter PeterH has been asking in the comment section why conservatives aren’t out rallying against the proposals to subsidize a possible new Vikings stadium.
There are conservatives who make valid cases against stadium subsidies – my NARN colleague King Banaian has written on the subject on an academic level, to say nothing of blogging – and for it (this’d be Katie Kieffer).
For the record,I oppose on princple most government subsidy of anything – not just billionaires’ businesses, but of extended poverty as well. But I digress.
Without trying to control for political sympathies, let’s find out what the readers of this blog think:
I supported the others (with reservations), but at times you have to finally draw the line. We can only subsidize so many millionaire athletes. The Xcel was needed to bring NHL back (and look what it did to West 7th). And the new Target field is quite nice. Same with TCF. But I don’t see the state being a better place to live because we have a new $750,000,000 football stadium.
And as a Packer fan and shareholder, we will welcome the rest of the Minnesota people who currently aren’t fans of the team from Titletown.
My opinion depends entirely on what the deal is. If the Vikings deal is anything like the Colts deal with Indianapolis, then we should wave goodbye to the Vikings.
It almost never makes sense for governments to subsidize stadium construction. Especially for a sport that has eight home games. Madness.
Now, if Mayor Bloomie were to subsidize a Manhattan west-side stadium for the Mets, Angryclown is prepared to look the other way.
I honesty don’t like any deal. I think they should charge what it costs to support the business, or go out of business. Or leave, or whatever the other options are, but keep their hands out of government coffers.
Speaking of baseball stadiums: there’s talk of building a stadium for the (single-A) Saints on the east edge of downtown Saint Paul, on a long-abandoned factory site.
Strike one: while Saints’ current home is a charmless municipal stadium, it’s also walking distance from my house. And I’d miss that. But it’d be a good thing for downtown.
But another big city subsidy would be strike two. I’m waiting to see what the financing plan is supposed to be.
Angryclown went to see the Durham Bulls a few years back, hoping to see the stadium from the movie. Alas, the increased attendence generated by Bull Durham bumped the team from A to AAA and caused them to move into a… charmless municipal stadium.
Bull Durham thread!
Nuke: I don’t understand. I held it like an egg.
Crash: Yeah. And he scrambled the sonofabitch. Anything that flies that far ought to have a stewardess on it.
They must have courses in architectural school to make, as AC notes, charmless metropolitan stadia. “No-no–get rid of that arch–we want it to look like a toddler built the darned thing out of Legos!”
My take is that Wrigley was built for a quarter million bucks, and has been standing for about 90 years. Methinks that as teams need more, and better seating, maybe it’s time to start renovating them section by section. Certainly Minnesota would have been better off had the Twinkies decided to renovate old Met stadium that way instead of both building the Homer-Dome and the Zoo of America. It’s not like buildings that size aren’t built on 20-30 separate foundations anyways.
Crash: “Well, I believe in the soul, the c**k, the p***y, the small of a woman’s back, the hanging curve ball, high fiber, good scotch, that the novels of Susan Sontag are self-indulgent, overrated crap. I believe Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone. I believe there ought to be a constitutional amendment outlawing Astroturf and the designated hitter. I believe in the sweet spot, soft-core pornography, opening your presents Christmas morning rather than Christmas Eve and I believe in long, slow, deep, soft, wet kisses that last three days.”
[pause]
“Goodnight. “
They must have courses in architectural school to make, as AC notes, charmless metropolitan stadia.
Well, to be fair, Midway Stadium was built for high school sports, by the lowest qualified bidder. They wanted bang for the buck. They got it.
And for all of its bland cement-y sterility, it’s got its charms; the trains running past the outfield fence, the carnival outside the right field line…maybe it’s just the institution the Saints have become, but I’ve gotten a little bit fond of the place.
“Your shower shoes have fungus on them. You’ll never make it to the bigs with fungus on your shower shoes. Think classy, you’ll be classy. If you win 20 in the show, you can let the fungus grow back and the press’ll think you’re colorful. Until you win 20 in the show, however, it means you are a slob.”
Is Berg ready to jump in a bathtub with Susan Sarandon? Nah. Scarlett, on the other hand…
Make it big enough and squeeze Marisa in on the other side.
Mmmm. Baseball.
Is Berg ready to jump in a bathtub with Susan Sarandon?
In 1988 I sure was.
Angry was gonna say. As different as Angryclown and Mitch may be on other topics, it is as if they were of one mind when it comes to hot ladies. So yes, Angryclown would totally hit that, but would require a time machine.
Perhaps one day Angryclown will give the Angry Tour of NYC baseball parks to Mitch and any SitD commenters that receive His advance approval. Citi Field, Yankee Mausoleum and the SI Yankee and Brooklyn Cyclones parks.
Angryclown would totally hit that, but would require a time machine
Berg agrees. But then he’d be tempted to just keep cranking back to 1942 and ring up Ingrid Bergmann.
Time machines would make me greedy.
Perhaps one day Angryclown will give the Angry Tour of NYC baseball parks
May just have to put that on the agenda…
Quoting Angryclown: “It almost never makes sense for governments to subsidize stadium construction. Especially for a sport that has eight home games. Madness.”
I couldn’t agree more with AC on this. When the Hump was built is was built as a multi-sport venue (and like it or not it’s served that purpose). Even with multi-use it makes no real economical sense for government to fund what should be private property. It’s in “keeping up with the Jones’ mentality that we allow ourselves to be extorted by billionaires. Sadly we allow this to happen with other enterprises as well (NW Airlines loans and building of maintenance facilities, loans to Excelsion-Henderson Corp., Best Buy preferential treatments, etc.).
The leg and lobbyists strive to come up with creative funding schemes. The Hump was built with bond issues funded by tax on liquour by the drink in the 7-county metro area. Once the bonds were paid off the tax was supposed to go away (kinda like the original MN sales tax). The bonds were paid off early but those “short-term” taxes never went away, the blood suckeres discovered a new urgent need, and reason to keep those taxes place.
Like AC said “MADNESS”.
Angryclown thinks he’d probably tap Queen Elizabeth I if He could time it right.
Angryclown used to think the ’80s-era Isabella Rosillini was perfection.
’80s-era Isabella Rossellini
Bellissima.
Well, Dallas has their shiny new stadium. Arlington floated some bonds, and raised up some sales tax and hotel tax to help pay for it. Now if you dont mind parking over a mile away ($40) and getting standing room only tickets, you can take your family of 4 to a game for only $156. Not counting food or drink. On the other hand, if your family of 4 wants to sit down and NOT walk over a mile ($50-75), it will run you about $311 for the cheapest seats, again not counting food and drink. If you want decent seats and not walk a mile, it will run you approx $700. Plus food and drink, but at this point, who cares. So well worth the taxpayers helping pay for that for 8 games a year. And those are GAMES, not WINS. What more could you ask for?
Im in favor of this and not just because I am a huge Vikings fan. Let me work out the scenario below. We stand pat and Zigi picks up and moves the team to LA in 2012-13 football fans here bitch and moan and riot and complain about how the government didn’t shell out the money. People get put in that will bend to the knee of the NFL and around 2017 we fork out $1.5 billion for a new stadium and get, lets say the Jacksonville Jags or Buffalo Bills to relocate here by us bribing the owner for about $500 million to pick up and move here. Let’s fork out the 250-300 million now and be done with it. And isn’t there a way we can make it a loan, as in the Vikings have to pay it back over 10-20 years?
’80s-era Isabella Rossellini
Until that unfortunate scene in Blue Velvet. Sigh.
Zigi picks up and moves the team…football fans here …riot
The Berg administration would order the Guard into the streets with live truncheons.
and complain about how the government didn’t shell out the money
Nobody who complained even once about RT Rybak’s $50,000 drinking fountains had better ever open their mouths about spending again!
Seriously – that’s just knuckling under to coercion.
People get put in that will bend to the knee of the NFL and around 2017 we fork out $1.5 billion
And if that happens, we’ll deserve any and all spending horrors that befall us. We might as well just name Kelliher “Governor for Life”.
And isn’t there a way we can make it a loan, as in the Vikings have to pay it back over 10-20 years?
I believe we’ve suggested it, and one owner or another (McCombs? Wilf? The previous regime) said “no”. They wanted a gift, or nothing at all.
that unfortunate scene in Blue Velvet
[Aretha on] Don’t be blasphemin’ in here! [/Aretha]
And isn’t there a way we can make it a loan, as in the Vikings have to pay it back over 10-20 years?
I believe we’ve suggested it, and one owner or another (McCombs? Wilf? The previous regime) said “no”. They wanted a gift, or nothing at all.
And they know they can get the gift from someone, so they have no reason to negotiate. So we have to decide, how valuable are the Vikings to this region? And if we are willing to spend huge money to keep them, can we expect them to treat the local fan base with the same generosity that Buzz mentions in his post?
I’m guessing we all know the answer.
Just remember, there’s always plenty of room on the Packer bandwagon — many Vikings fans took a ride on it back in ’96. And Mitch and the rest of da Bearz fans would let you pull up a barstool, too.
Hey, if we were a “cold Omaha”, as Zygi and others constantly threaten us, we could root for the Huskers!
the N in Nebraska stands for knowledge
“Perhaps one day Angryclown will give the Angry Tour of NYC baseball parks to Mitch and any SitD commenters that receive His advance approval.”
Yeah, sure, that sounds great…stopping every two blocks to wait while AssClown jumps into the bushes with some moke to turn $3.00. By the end of the tour, everyone will be calling him “Crusty”.
Perhaps one day Angryclown will give the Angry Tour of NYC baseball parks to any SitD commenters that receive His advance approval.
May just have to put that on the agenda…
Hmmm. Where’s the application form?
Since it seems to be fashionable hereabouts to speak of hot babes, stadia, and of oneself in the third person, mnbubba will aver that there is no finer baseball experience to be had than a bleacher seat at a Miesville Mudhen game on a drowsy July evening, and no lovlier lady than the young Julie Christie.
So we have to decide, how valuable are the Vikings to this region?
They are worth exactly what the market will support. There’s this really cool mechanism for determining that number.
If the Vikes go, I’m still going to oppose a stadium to lure some other team here. Seriously, did it do any good to try to replace the Lakers after they left?
Some state/region/city has to be the one to say no. I’m hoping it’s us.
But I would not be upset if the metropolitan sports commission wrote a $1 per year lease with the Vikings and let them control the dome. Nor would I be upset if the metropolitan sports commission shut its doors.
I drove past the Miesville ballpark one Tuesday evening this summer in the gloaming. The stadium lights were on, the scoreboard was lit up, the players on the field looked as if they had been placed there for a diorama, and behind the first base dugout the tall steeple of the local Catholic church gave a tacit benediction. I had someplace I had to be or I would have stopped and taken in the game. It is something I will make time for next summer.
“Packer bandwagon — many Vikings fans took a ride on it back in ‘96.”
Sure, and Snowe is a staunch Republican. Gotcha, Mr. D, we call ’em fairweather fans or maybe we should call them VFINOs.
Generally I am against stadium funding, but I think Norm Coleman had a huge accomplishment as mayor getting NHL to St. Paul. It can be a great economic boost for a city; not the state.
K-Rod, with 40 games per year, the Wild have an obvious impact on the 7 Corners neighborhood. But remember, the Vikings have 8 regular season games per year. One-fifth the number of games the Wild have, and one-tenth the number of games the Twins have.