A friend of the blog writes:
I don’t necessarily think it should be easier to vote. I think people should respect their right and make informed decisions. But, I do think it would be beneficial if more people did take their right seriously and voted.
With that, I laugh every time someone declares that voting day as a holiday will make it easier for people to vote. Easier for whom? Most poor people working for minimum wage in service industries will still be working. Healthcare workers will still be working. The list could go on.
Let’s look at the announcement by the city of Sandusky, Ohio, who will be making voting day a holiday. They’re swapping out Columbus Day. (I don’t think that I have ever had Columbus Day off let alone holiday pay for working it, so is this going to be helpful for people?) Some decision makers were concerned that they were losing a 3 day holiday, but we’re swayed because this would be for the greater good. Of note, per this article, this would only affect 250 residents out of 26,000. The city manager admits it is “a small gesture, but an important one.”
Not sure if it is even a gesture of any import. How many of these 250 were already voting?
It might be a cheap shot to say “Progressives benefit by driving lots of ill-informed people to the polls”.
It really might.
I’m not sure “cheap shot” and “accurate” are mutually exclusive.
Even better, do what Oregon does and use a 100% mail-in ballot system. Oregon has Motor Voter, so almost everyone eligible is registered, and everyone who is registered automatically gets a ballot in the mail.
More democracy does not equal better government, though it may mean more government.
While it is not necessarily true that ““Progressives benefit by driving lots of ill-informed people to the polls” (ill-informed is a judgement call), it is true that the easier it is to vote, more people who place less value on their vote will cast votes. How this translates to better government or even better democracy is beyond me. If all we want to do is increase the number of votes, why not 14 year year olds vote?
Do you think that confidence in our democratic form of government has gone up or down since we began to make it easier to vote? Let’s use some of that “empiricism” and “evidence-based reasoning” progressives are always going on about, shall we?
In my one-party state, they keep making it easier and easier to vote, and turnout keeps going down. Because this is a one-party state, it doesn’t matter who you vote for, the Dem will win.
Some of the most corrupt, totalitarian governments in history got massive voter turnout rates.
When people say they want voter turnout to go up, I ask them why. I have yet to get a coherent answer. People’s passion for “more democracy” cools when they realize what 51% of the voters could do to them if they had the chance.
https://freebeacon.com/politics/study-voter-id-laws-dont-stop-people-voting/
You aren’t a science denier, are you?
“When people say they want voter turnout to go up, I ask them why. I have yet to get a coherent answer.”
I have found this to be true when I ask the question. I have been one to tell people not to vote if they don’t know anything about who is running.
The whole “get out the vote” campaign frightens me. I have seen posts on social media where people actually say, “I am voting in this election to make a difference. I am only going to vote for the women and POC.” I laugh and wonder who this strategy is helping and why it is important to have people like this vote.
I of course remind these types that then if Ben Carson were running against Bernie Sanders, Carson would be their candidate. That is usually a conversation ender.
I’m 100% in favor of dragging every American citizen to the polls to vote, if force by necessary…as soon as we require the ballot be filled out in writing, in English.
Illegible or misspelled votes are discarded; proper capitalization counts. Votes in cursive count as 2.
While I oppose literacy tests that prevented blacks from voting in the old Jim Crow South I really think that there should be some type of basic civics 101 test that is required at the polls, I know it is massively unconstitutional but I think you should know the basics of how government operates, like stuff you learn (or should learn at least) I am not for making voting madatory, I also believe that unless you have a valid medical or moral reason early voting should be eliminated. Also no electronic voting, everything on paper ballots. Is any of this unreasonable?
Also, if you take time off on election day to vote (not the entire day but say a extended lunch hour) I believe it is illegal for an employer to punish you because there are federal laws that protect you.
In 2002 when Pawlenty was running against Tim Penny and Roger Moe, I was discussing the candidates with my coworkers. Most of us were of like mind and said we were voting for Pawlenty. One of my coworkers said “Well then, that settles it. I have to vote for Moe”. We were all puzzled and asked why. She replied “Well, if you’re all voting for Pawlenty, that’s not very fair. I have to vote for Moe to balance you out.” We asked her if there was any reason besides that? Did she know anything about Republican vs Democrat policies and positions? With which side did her personal beliefs line up?
We received a blank stare in response. I came right out and told her “If the only reason you’re going to vote for Humphrey is to balance us out, please don’t. You have no idea what you are doing.” She got pissed at me, and another one of our coworkers quickly looked up a “which candidate should I vote for?” survey and made her take it. She came out slightly favoring Penny so she said she would vote for him. Come election day, she didn’t bother.
I’ve had the debate over should/should not vote with a couple people. One of them was a “GADSDEN FLAG LIBERTARIAN OR DIE” type. I told him about my coworker and my opinion. He got pissed and said I was wrong, that the founding fathers made it so everyone could vote for a reason. I said “so you really think all those tens of thousands of US revolutionaries died, and we formed a new country around it, so that my friend would have the ability to say “If 10 people vote for A, then I have to vote for B because it’s not fair all you guys vote for A”? Yep, absolutely, was his response. I cut my losses and quit arguing with him.
Personally I think at least half the voting pool shouldn’t be voting. At all. Not without some proof of civics class competence. Like say which amendment made it possible for them to vote.
Q: When you vote, should you vote to serve your own interests, or what is in the best interests of the country?
A: There is no answer. You will find nothing in the founding documents that tries to answer this question. The closest we can get is statements about the government getting its sovereignty on loan from the sovereign people, and the need to hold government accountable to the people.
So if you want to vote to get free stuff or punish people you have a personal grudge with, that’s just fine. That is just as much democracy in action as voting to show love of country or hatred of injustice.
Conservatives (esp. neocons) are just as likely to say that you should vote for what is good for the country as liberals. The difference is that conservatives should know better. An individual has a a pretty good idea what is in his or her own best interest, and has a difficult time knowing what is in the best interest of the nation.
I’ve had the debate over should/should not vote with a couple people. One of them was a “GADSDEN FLAG LIBERTARIAN OR DIE” type. I told him about my coworker and my opinion. He got pissed and said I was wrong, that the founding fathers made it so everyone could vote for a reason. I said “so you really think all those tens of thousands of US revolutionaries died, and we formed a new country around it, so that my friend would have the ability to say “If 10 people vote for A, then I have to vote for B because it’s not fair all you guys vote for A”? Yep, absolutely, was his response. I cut my losses and quit arguing with him.
While at my core , I am a libertarian, I also live in the real world. Government is at best a necessary evil and people are not basically good. When I try to debate hardcore libertarians they end up being like Leftists or Marxists, all theory nothing that can be enacted in the real world. The more I talked with them I realized that the far right and far left have a lot more in common than they ever want to acknowledge.
“The more I talked with them I realized that the far right and far left have a lot more in common than they ever want to acknowledge.”
I have noticed this in many ways. For example, in many of the Iowa counties that Trump won in the Caucus, so did Bernie. I think both sides of those voters were fed up over similar issues and had similar reactionary remedies. In my own caucus, the Trump supporters reminded me quite a bit of the Ron Paul supporters of previous caucuses.
While mainstream Republicans eventually got around to supporting Trump, I think his initial support came more from far right, even with Paul’s son Rand running.
And while some Libertarians are not openly vocal about support for Trump, he so far has produced some Libertarian friendly policies that I think he did better than some of the others who were running against him could have.