22 thoughts on “Got Talk And Roll Politics On My Radio…”

1. In other news, the Dayton campaign has announced the official chant to the looney leftist blogs on their Chanting Points Memo:

   Dayton, Dayton, he’s out man,
   If he can’t spend it no one can!

   The Dayton campaign expects the ditty “to go viral” and be plastered all over their paid astrotuff campaign supporters’ websites by the end of the weekend.

2. Mitch, since you’re committed to accuracy, here’s the truth behind the Cordova name.

   http://gotmedieval.blogspot.com/2010/08/professor-newts-distorted-history.html

   Please educate your listeners, since one of your callers just spread Newt Gingerich’s lie about it.

3. Disco, is it “the truth” or a “useful idiot” speaking? How do you know which explanation describes the inner thoughts of those who named the Cordoba House and proposed its location? Do you have some telepathic powers we don’t know about?

   Seriously, there would have been better names to throw about than choosing the capital of a region bin Laden has called to be retaken. The one they chose is pretty loaded with controversy even today, but then again, so is the action of placing the house of worship where they have. The fact that they did both is actually a sign of incompetence at best, and more probably of ill intent.

4. Disco Stoo,

   Let’s say I fly to Japan. I build a monument, say, overlooking the parts of Tokyo that were firebombed out of existence 65 years ago, to preach the primacy of America.

   Japanese might take umbrage. Japanese nationalist politician Nuta Ginagaricha might say that this monument is an insult to the 80,000-odd Tokyans who died at the hands of our B29s.

   To which commenter Disoku Satuja replies “You are a liar! Remember – back in 1945 America was more liberal and egalitarian than Japan was.” He’d be correct. But the small-l liberal message would have made more sense if I’d built my monument at, say, Edo, where the first trade contact between the US and Japan were made. Not at a site where we smote our foes in an ocean of fire.

   Both Ginagaricha and Satuja make a case, of course; America was more “liberal” back then. Just as Islam was more “liberal” than Christianity – 400 years ago.

   And yet both scenes are fraught with hideous, wrenching symbolism for the locals.

   So which is it? If my monument is a true attempt to create healing and understanding between people, then perhaps Mr. Satuja has a point; OTOH, if I use that monument to spike the football in the endzone in triumphaistic glee over my culture’s abject humiliation of their culture, that’d be quite another thing.

   The Cordoba reference is a reference to Islamic power. That the Islamic power in the era of Muslim conquest of Spain was more egalitarian than the Christianity of the time is both a low bar to surmount and just as irrelevant as America’s liberalism in 1945 would be to my endzone happy dance in Tokyo, if that is indeed the real message I’m sending out.

   So do you think the NYC Mosque is being built, by that group, using that symbol, at that location, in a bid to seek cultural rapprochement?

   Please elaborate.

5. It would be neat if our cultural overlords would demonstrate to us hicks how peaceful Muslims are by, say, insulting their religion with the same gusto with which they insult Catholic church or any Christian denomination that is not a member of the NCC.
   I’m not going to hold my breath.

6. Nerdbert, I don’t know anyone’s inner thoughts. What I do know is the mosque in Cordoba wasn’t built to symbolize a muslim victory over christianity. That’s a lie that Newt Gingerich put out, and is a point that is being chanted all over talk radio.

   First off, Mitch, I appreciate that you at least support the 1st Amendment right to build the mosque, which is more than I can say for many talk-show hosts. Is Fusal preaching the “primacy” of muslims over America? Is he a supporter of al-Qaeda in some way that makes this situation analogous to yours? Does Japan have a fundamental philosophy that includes allowing members of other nations to build monuments to their nation?

   Terry, I think islam is as stupid of a religion as every denomination of christianity. The koran is as fictional as the bible. Muslims who threaten and kill over drawings of Mohammed are as crazy as christians who threaten and kill over abortion, maybe crazier. I also suggest everyone eat pork and drink booze.

   Out of curiosity, how close to ground zero would it be OK to build a mosque?

7. The koran is as fictional as the bible. Muslims who threaten and kill over drawings of Mohammed are as crazy as christians who threaten and kill over abortion, maybe crazier.

   But for some reason no one seems to be afraid of insulting the Christian religion, but everyone is terrified of insulting Islam. Terrified, as in “If I insult Islam I will end up lying in the gutter with my throat slit”.
   The Da Vinci Code was a major Hollywood film. You will never see a film version of The Satanic Verses.

   I don’t think you know all that much about how the history of religion, in all its varieties, fits in with the history of mankind, Disco. Man has experienced no great leap forward in consciousness with the demise of religion as the organizing principal of the Western way of life.
   It’s hard to believe now, but not that long ago that there was a popular idea among intellectuals that when religion was passed over in favor of reason as the guiding principal of statesmen, war would go away, and all the problems of managing society would be formalized and solved like the problems of mass production were solved. It hasn’t worked out that way. Whatever foolishness makes people want to slaughter other people, it is not religion per se.

8. “First off, Mitch, I appreciate that you at least support the 1st Amendment right to build the mosque, which is more than I can say for many talk-show hosts.”

   The 1st amendment provides freedom of association, but it says nothing about where you can and can’t build things. As it turns out, it’s extremely common for the law to prevent someone building something. I can’t build so much as a fence in my own backyard without getting permission from busybody neighbors, checking with utilities and satisfying an army of local government regulators.

   I’d certainly like to change the law to where people could buy property and build on it as they pleased, but that’s not the current state of the law. So long as everyone else has to play by those rules, there’s no reason why their neighbors shouldn’t be allowed to boycott anyone who so much as hammers one nail into the ground for that property. And that’s *our* 1A right, thanks so much.

   “What I do know is the mosque in Cordoba wasn’t built to symbolize a muslim victory over christianity.”

   But you don’t know how contemporary Muslims view it. You don’t know how the people funding this operation view it. And you don’t know (and have presented *no* reason to doubt) that there won’t be a radical preacher in there one day screaming about how he’s standing two blocks away from the site of 9/11, claiming conquest.

   “That’s a lie that Newt Gingerich put out, and is a point that is being chanted all over talk radio.”

   You’re avoiding the symbolism by focusing on a narrow historical dispute.

   “Out of curiosity, how close to ground zero would it be OK to build a mosque?”

   Graveyards and historic battlefields are pretty common and there is plenty of historical record of the disputes over them. I wouldn’t be surprised if a researcher hasn’t worked out some rules of thumb as to how close you can put a potentially disruptive building near such a site.

   Two city blocks is is way too close.

9. What I do know is the mosque in Cordoba wasn’t built to symbolize a muslim victory over christianity.

   No kidding. How do you know that…from the half-assed apologetic you cited?

   Listen, dolt.

   Maybe you missed the dozens of weasel words in that spew, but I didn’t. “Teh muzlems didn’t build their mosque for 70 years”….pffft.

   Yeah, they were too busy cutting heads off infidels to get to it right away.

   This isn’t a a 4th Pct. police report, stool. Your bullshit will not be summarily codified into fact.

   Why not try reading some actual history from a historian instead of diving head first into some leftist moron’s corn-hole every time.

   Mark this one: America hating FAIL.

10. Put another way…:

    What I do know is the mosque in Cordoba wasn’t built to symbolize a muslim victory over christianity

    And the swastika was originally designed as a peaceful religious symbol. It acquired a different meaning over the years.

11. But for some reason no one seems to be afraid of insulting the Christian religion

    And I wish they would to. Although I haven’t read the Satanic Verses. Is it a page-turning mystical thriller?

    Man has experienced no great leap forward in consciousness with the demise of religion as the organizing principal of the Western way of life

    The demise of religion is far from here.

    And that’s *our* 1A right, thanks so much.

    And so is lying.

    You don’t know how the people funding this operation view it.

    They are using the real historical justification. I understand you guys think they are lying. You seem to accept that Cordoba was a home to tolerance, but ignore it because that would mean muslims might not all be the monsters you think they are.

    What does a muslim have to do to be considered moderate in your books?

12. On second thought, you’re right. Gingrich isn’t lying. Lying is saying something one knows isn’t true. Gingrich doesn’t care if what he says is true. That would make it bullshit.

13. You seem to accept that Cordoba was a home to tolerance, but ignore it because that would mean muslims might not all be the monsters you think they are.

    Pardon me. I need to build an addition onto my mouth to fit all the words you’re jamming into it.

    What does a muslim have to do to be considered moderate in your books?

    Explicitly renounce the move to destroy Israel and kill all Jews.

    Declare that Jihad is a peaceful, spiritual struggle, and is not viewed as a literal, sometimes violent and armed, push to obey the Quranic dictum that nonbelievers must be converted or killed.

    Y’know – the stuff Christianity did 500 years ago.

14. Out of curiosity, how close to ground zero would it be OK to build a mosque?
    How many miles is it from Manhattan to Mecca? I also wonder if Stoo has been fitted for his burkha yet.

15. It would be interesting to know how Cordoba House is being funded. It is a bit of a mystery.
    If the Wahhabists or the Iranians or the Muslim Brotherhood is behind it, the idea that it was named to celebrate the “tolerant” Islamic Cordoba of history is a joke.
    It is disturbing that many Western supporters of Cordoba House are actively hostile about the idea investigating the source of its funding. This implies that they have a belief that if the source of Cordoba House’s funds are discovered, it will not help their cause.

16. If you are claiming that Discordian Stooj can’t mind read what these Muslims have in mind ………how can Newt Gingrich? Not one of you seems willing to make that observation about him.

    There is a mosque five blocks from the site of ground zero that predates the World Trade Center going up, never mind coming down. Given that earlier actual mosque has existed for such a long time without any connection to extremists, and given that the new COMMUNITY CENTER open to all faiths, which is NOT actually a MOSQUE as Newt and Palin and God only knows how many others keep claiming, and that it will have a MULTI FAITH prayer room – not unlike the multi-faith chapels in many hospitals — I think that can be taken as evidence that the organizers who want to take over a former Burlington Coat factory location are in fact choosing the term Cordoba House to represent that religious building in medieval Spain which was SHARED by Christians and Muslims.

    Cordoba represented an example in its day of cooperation between Jews, Christians, and Muslims, not the killing of Jews. It comes closer as a symbol to what you are seeking in a more tolerant less bloody-minded attitude towards Jews that you would like to see than anything.

    You gentlemen seem to be omitting from the discussion that by building this facility, they are also honoring the dead of Muslim faith who were killed in the bombing by other Muslims. Mitch’s example doesn’t parallel that, and is invalid for that reason.

    If there is any snark in the name, it might be because in this same era of the third crusade into Spain, it was the monarchs Ferdinand and Isabella, the same monarchs of Aragon and Castile, who sent Columbus to find the western hemisphere, that expelled the Jews from Spain, keeping their property, began the Spanish Inquisition that tortured not only Jews and Muslims who hadn’t forcibly converted enthusiastically enough, but also their fellow Christians. I’ve been getting my own refresher course in the interactions, mostly violent interactions, between Christians and Muslims while writing my daily history posts. The upshot – neither side were very peaceful with each other, or with their co-religionists either, and both sides were pretty vile to the Jews some of the time, but distinctly not at other times. So to focus on the Muslim faith as being the bad guys is …..wrong.

    Newt is wrong, Palin is wrong, FACTUALLY wrong. Unless they can demonstrate that the people in the group wanting to open this COMMUNITY CENTER are in any way associated with extremists – and they don’t appear to be — then what they actually have planned seems an attempt at rapprochment, not insult. If ever Godl were in the details, that is true here.

17. But you don’t know any of the details, Dog Gone. You only know what this Feisal Abdul Rauf person has said about it.
    If you are so good on the details, who is paying for this?

18. Rauf says he expects 1000-2000 Muslims to say their prayers at Cordoba House on Friday. There are mega churches with fewer worshipers than this on Sunday. This is a community center attached to a mosque, not the other way around.
    Palin & Gingrich were right, Dog Gone was wrong.

19. DG, Cordoba represented “a cooperation” between Muslims and Christians for approximately 100 years, and even then it was an uneasy cooperation between the conquered and their conquerors. And given the frequent regime changes in the Caliphate the treatment of the dhimmis generally degraded over time.

    Go read the history of what happened as time went on and you’ll see that the next 1000 years represented something very different than what you seem to think happened. After all, conquering churches, hauling the bells back to Cordoba on the backs of Christian slaves, and melting the bells down to provide the lamps to the mosque wouldn’t be incendiary at all, would it? That would be the finest example of peaceful coexistence and show true religious tolerance!

    As to the 1490s, you have to remember that the history of the Jews in Spain was not without controversy. Both Christian and Islamic sources universally have the Jews being very helpful to the the Islamic invaders in the capture of Cordoba (accounts range from merely helpful to outright treachery; and the Jews were left in charge of Cordoba’s defenses after the initial capture) and in many other instances in the occupation that followed. Is is surprising that very soon after the final expulsion of the hated occupiers that those who belonged to a people who were privileged and cooperated with those occupiers?

    Not that the Jews were well treated by either the Muslims, their Grenada massacre was only the first instance, or by the Christians. In general, the treatment of the Jews varied significantly in both Christian and Muslim societies over time, and at times both of them committed atrocities. Just consider that 9000 of those Jews expelled from Spain wound up in Italy alone, while it was less than 300 years later that the Jews who wound up going to Algiers would head back to Spain to escape increased persecution.

20. A “MULTI FAITH prayer room”. Heh. How’s the one down at Normandale Community College working out? (Little hint: the “multi” part ended a few years ago.) Allahu ackbar!!!

21. Feisal Abdul Rauf is a regular poster over at huffingtonpost. He engages in the same doublespeak all jihadists do.

    As Obama pointed out, the Holy Quran says that whoever kills an innocent, it is as if he has killed all mankind. Adherence to Islam would end indiscriminate firing of missiles from Gaza into Israel that kill innocents.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/imam-feisal-abdul-rauf/obamas-challenge-to-the-m_b_211838.html

    But the jihadists don’t believe that any of the Israeli’s are innocents. Just being Israeli makes them soldiers in the zionist army.

22. Terry;

    I agree. Isreal is a “damned if we do; damned if we don’t” scenario.

    That said, I don’t trust Netanayu as far as I could throw him. I firmly believe that he has a hidden agenda, but I can’t put my finger on why or what.

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