{"id":35710,"date":"2013-04-11T12:15:46","date_gmt":"2013-04-11T17:15:46","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.shotinthedark.info\/wp\/?p=35710"},"modified":"2013-09-13T07:51:44","modified_gmt":"2013-09-13T12:51:44","slug":"the-emperors-new-polls-the-client-is-obviously-guilty","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"http:\/\/www.shotinthedark.info\/wp\/?p=35710","title":{"rendered":"The Emperor&#8217;s New Polls: &#8220;Your Client Is Obviously Guilty!&#8221;"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>&#8220;<em>Wry Wing Politics<\/em>&#8221; is one of the painfully small group of Twin Cities leftybloggers who don&#8217;t expressly deserve to be under police surveillance.<\/p>\n<p>But that doesn&#8217;t mean <em>WWP<\/em>\u00a0and its author, Joe Loveland, know how to take apart a complex issue, or dig beneath the hood of a lefty propaganda meme, better than the babbling bobbleheads at\u00a0<em>Minnesota Progressive Project<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p><em>Vide\u00a0<\/em>this piece about the <a href=\"http:\/\/www.wrywingpolitics.com\/who-is-the-mn-gop-representing-on-gun-background-checks\/?utm_source=WhatCounts+Publicaster+Edition&amp;utm_medium=email&amp;utm_campaign=Politics+in+Minnesota+Morning+Report+4%2f11%2f2013&amp;utm_content=Who+is+the+MN+GOP+Representing+on+Gun+Background+Checks%3f\">polling claiming to show Minnesotans and Americans are lock-step in favor of universal background checks<\/a>. \u00a0Loveland thinks the polls show it&#8217;s not even a debate anymore.<\/p>\n<p>And on the surface &#8211; as in, the layer that a dust-rag and a spritz of Pledge removes &#8211; it looks like he might be onto something:<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>In politics, presidential candidates who win the support of over 60% of Americans are said to have won overwhelming \u201clandslide\u201d victories. Harding\u2019s 60.3% in 1920. FDR\u2019s 60.8% in 1936. Johnson\u2019s 61.1% in 1964. and Nixon\u2019s 60.7% in 1972. Landslides!<\/p>\n<p>It is so difficult to get 60% of Americans to agree on politics, that such \u201clandslide victories\u201d are considered highly unusual indications of a historically overwhelming level of public sentiment.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>So far, so good. \u00a0When Americans in all their infinite variety consider all the different issues and perceptions and angles that go into electing a president, a landslide like Reagan&#8217;s in 1984 (which, at\u00a058.77%, is mighty close to 60%) is pretty much a mandate.<\/p>\n<p>That&#8217;s with what should be a complex decision, like a Presidential election. \u00a0Now, you can look at the results of the past two elections and wonder if voters really\u00a0<em>do<\/em>\u00a0put all that much thought into elections, but let&#8217;s have some faith in The People and assume that there&#8217;s a certain amount of reasoning and, for most people, at least a week or two of thought that goes into elections.<\/p>\n<p>But a public opinion poll?<span style=\"font-family: Georgia, 'Bitstream Charter', serif; font-style: italic;\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<blockquote><p>In Minnesota right now, Minnesotans of all walks of life, including Republicans, Independents, gun owners and Greater Minnesota citizens, are giving a landslide victory to gun background checks.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>Loveland cites the\u00a0<em>Strib\u00a0<\/em>&#8220;Minnesota Poll&#8221;, which I&#8217;ll borrow here:<\/p>\n<div style=\"width: 915px\" class=\"wp-caption alignnone\"><a href=\"http:\/\/www.wrywingpolitics.com\/who-is-the-mn-gop-representing-on-gun-background-checks\/?utm_source=WhatCounts+Publicaster+Edition&amp;utm_medium=email&amp;utm_campaign=Politics+in+Minnesota+Morning+Report+4%2f11%2f2013&amp;utm_content=Who+is+the+MN+GOP+Representing+on+Gun+Background+Checks%3f\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" src=\"http:\/\/www.wrywingpolitics.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2013\/04\/Star_Tribune_poll_universal_background_checks.png\" alt=\"\" width=\"905\" height=\"640\" \/><\/a><p class=\"wp-caption-text\">Pilfered without permission from &#8220;Wry Wing Politics&#8221;, but with a link back included. Go ahead. Click it. Click the picture. You know you want to.<\/p><\/div>\n<p>Now, we&#8217;ve gone over this in the past; through most of its history, <a href=\"http:\/\/www.shotinthedark.info\/wp\/?s=%22Daves%2C+goliath%22&amp;submit=Search\">the &#8220;Minnesota Poll&#8221; has been a bald-faced DFL propaganda organ<\/a>, so any conservative is going to distrust but verify their results.<\/p>\n<p>However, I think there&#8217;s reason to believe they cleaned up their act in 2012 &#8211; the next election will be an interesting one. \u00a0So I&#8217;m not\u00a0<em>as\u00a0<\/em>inclined to reject the poll\u00a0<em>because\u00a0<\/em>it&#8217;s the Minnesota Poll as I used to be. \u00a0But they say &#8220;trust but verify&#8221;, and so I shall:<\/p>\n<p>Loveland thinks he&#8217;s closing in for the kill:<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>The Minnesota Republicans\u2019 point person on this issue, State Representative Tony Cornish (R-Vernon Center) shrugs off this Star Tribune Minnesota Poll with a cavalier \u201cnobody really believes those polls.\u201d<\/p>\n<ul>\n<li><span style=\"font-family: Georgia, 'Bitstream Charter', serif; font-style: italic;\">Or this poll \u2014 CNN\/ORC (89% support background checks)?<\/span><\/li>\n<li><span style=\"font-family: Georgia, 'Bitstream Charter', serif; font-style: italic;\">Or this poll \u2014 Quinnipiac (91% support background checks)?<\/span><\/li>\n<li><span style=\"font-family: Georgia, 'Bitstream Charter', serif; font-style: italic;\">Or this poll \u2014 Morning Joe\/Marist (87% support background checks)?<\/span><\/li>\n<li><span style=\"font-family: Georgia, 'Bitstream Charter', serif; font-style: italic;\">Or this poll \u2014 CBS (90% support background checks)?<\/span><\/li>\n<li><span style=\"font-family: Georgia, 'Bitstream Charter', serif; font-style: italic;\">Or this poll \u2014 Fox News (85% support background checks)?<\/span><\/li>\n<li><span style=\"font-family: Georgia, 'Bitstream Charter', serif; font-style: italic;\">Or this poll \u2014 ABC\/Washington Post (90% support support background checks)?<\/span><\/li>\n<li><span style=\"font-family: Georgia, 'Bitstream Charter', serif; font-style: italic;\">Or this poll \u2014 Pew\/USA Today (83% support background checks)?<\/span><\/li>\n<li><span style=\"font-family: Georgia, 'Bitstream Charter', serif; font-style: italic;\">Or this poll \u2014 University of Connecticut (69% support background checks)?<\/span><\/li>\n<li><span style=\"font-family: Georgia, 'Bitstream Charter', serif; font-style: italic;\">Or this poll \u2014 Gallup (91% support background checks)?<\/span><\/li>\n<li><span style=\"font-family: Georgia, 'Bitstream Charter', serif; font-style: italic;\">Or this poll \u2014 Associated Press-GfK (84% support background checks)?<\/span><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<\/blockquote>\n<p>Before we address the polls, let&#8217;s take a quick trip back in time.<\/p>\n<p>&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;-<\/p>\n<p>When I first started covering the war on the Second Amendment back in 1986, as a fairly newly-minted conservative talk show host on the weekend graveyard shift at KSTP, it was a very different world. \u00a0There were eight shall-issue states, and many states and cities with absolute gun bans.<\/p>\n<p>And when I interviewed a woman, Margolyn Bijlefeld of the &#8220;National Coalition to Ban Handguns&#8221; (which later morphed into either the Brady Factory or the VPC, I forget which), she flogged a set of polling stats that showed something like &#8220;85% of the American people support gun control!&#8221;<\/p>\n<p>A landslide!<\/p>\n<p>And so I pounced: \u00a0the poll leading to that question simply asked people if they supported &#8220;more gun control&#8221;, with no elaboration. \u00a0Yes or no. \u00a0No coloration, no flavor, no nuance.<\/p>\n<address>And it was a question that everyone &#8211; from the gun-grabbing government-groupie to lil&#8217; ol&#8217; me who favored ratcheting up sentences for gun crimes and keeping them out of the hands of the insane &#8211; could say &#8220;yes&#8221; to, with different reasons and (this is important) with <em>different consequences in mind. \u00a0<\/em><\/address>\n<address>And when other pollsters added elaboration to the question &#8211; telling people what &#8220;gun control&#8221; actually\u00a0<em>meant<\/em> &#8211; the numbers changed drastically. \u00a0The numbers favoring complete civilian gun bans dropped into (as I recall [1]) the twenties; handgun bans, the low thirties; background checks (in the days before NICS) scored much better; stiffer sentencing for gun crimes scored very, very well indeed. \u00a0<\/address>\n<address>And this was right around the high-water mark for the gun control movement, when murder rates were rising toward their highest levels since the 1930&#8217;s. \u00a0Where do you suppose those numbers would fall out today, after two decades of expanding gun rights and (in an utterly unrelated story, yessirreebob) radically falling violent crime rates?<\/address>\n<address>&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;-<\/address>\n<address>I&#8217;ll give credit to Loveland; he at least knows where I&#8217;m going with this, unlike most other leftybloggers:<\/address>\n<blockquote><p>For those who quibble about question wording, these polls all asked the question a bit differently.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>Right. \u00a0A bit.<\/p>\n<p>We&#8217;ll come back to this tomorrow morning and go through the fallacy of the &#8220;overwhelming support&#8221;.<\/p>\n<p>We&#8217;ll call it &#8220;Back to the Future&#8221;. \u00a0Or that&#8217;s what 85% of the writers of my blog say right now.<\/p>\n<p>[1] (I&#8217;ve been trying to find any reference to the polls from the eighties; happening as they did back when only Algore had the internet, I&#8217;m having not much luck. \u00a0If anyone has a pointer, I&#8217;d be much obliged)<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>&#8220;Wry Wing Politics&#8221; is one of the painfully small group of Twin Cities leftybloggers who don&#8217;t expressly deserve to be under police surveillance. But that doesn&#8217;t mean WWP\u00a0and its author, Joe Loveland, know how to take apart a complex issue, or dig beneath the hood of a lefty propaganda meme, better than the babbling bobbleheads [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[63,22],"tags":[262],"class_list":["post-35710","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-lefty-alt-media","category-victim-disarmament","tag-minnesota-poll"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"http:\/\/www.shotinthedark.info\/wp\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/35710","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"http:\/\/www.shotinthedark.info\/wp\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"http:\/\/www.shotinthedark.info\/wp\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/www.shotinthedark.info\/wp\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/www.shotinthedark.info\/wp\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcomments&post=35710"}],"version-history":[{"count":12,"href":"http:\/\/www.shotinthedark.info\/wp\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/35710\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":35721,"href":"http:\/\/www.shotinthedark.info\/wp\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/35710\/revisions\/35721"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"http:\/\/www.shotinthedark.info\/wp\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fmedia&parent=35710"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/www.shotinthedark.info\/wp\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcategories&post=35710"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/www.shotinthedark.info\/wp\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Ftags&post=35710"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}