{"id":34406,"date":"2013-02-21T12:41:14","date_gmt":"2013-02-21T18:41:14","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.shotinthedark.info\/wp\/?p=34406"},"modified":"2013-09-06T15:25:17","modified_gmt":"2013-09-06T20:25:17","slug":"conversation","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"http:\/\/www.shotinthedark.info\/wp\/?p=34406","title":{"rendered":"Conversation"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>I met my old friend Avery LIBRELLE at an &#8220;Au Bon Pain&#8221; in New Prague the other day.<\/p>\n<p>LIBRELLE: \u00a0So \u00a0you keep writing that you think liberals in Minnesota never really learn how to debate conservatives.<\/p>\n<p>ME: \u00a0Yep. \u00a0It&#8217;s true. \u00a0A liberal in Minnesota can come up through primary and secondary education systems that more or less subtly reinforce liberal dogma, go to a university where conservatives need not apply and where conservatism is treated as a cartoon by professors who themselves never learned to respect critical thinking much less practice it, and then go into a career in academia, journalism, government, the non-profits, unions, education &#8211; fields where conservatism is pretty much frowned on. To be fair, conservatives in Utah or Wyoming or North Dakota may have the same problem &#8211; although schools, universities and non-profits in those states largely aren&#8217;t magically conservative.<\/p>\n<p>LIBRELLE: \u00a0Well, I&#8217;m here to prove you wrong. \u00a0I&#8217;ve been boning up on debate tactics by reading all of the prominent Minnesota leftybloggers.<\/p>\n<p>ME: Ah. Excellent. \u00a0OK. \u00a0So let&#8217;s debate. \u00a0Pick a subject!<\/p>\n<p>LIBRELLE: \u00a0The DFL&#8217;s gun safety initiatives.<\/p>\n<p>ME: \u00a0Hm. \u00a0OK. \u00a0I can dig into that one. \u00a0The DFL&#8217;s gun grabs will at best make no dent in crime, and at worst make it worse.<\/p>\n<p>LIBRELLE: \u00a0That&#8217;s just cray cray.<\/p>\n<p>ME: Um &#8211; huh?<\/p>\n<p>LIBRELLE: \u00a0That means &#8220;Crazy&#8221;.<\/p>\n<p>ME: \u00a0I know what it means. \u00a0Would you care to go into details?<\/p>\n<p>LIBRELLE: \u00a0It&#8217;s cray cray. \u00a0As in very cray.<\/p>\n<p>ME: Er&#8230;OK. \u00a0Any actual factual assertions you&#8217;d like to make?<\/p>\n<p>LIBRELLE: \u00a0I think &#8220;it&#8217;s cray cray&#8221; is plenty.<\/p>\n<p>ME: Hm. \u00a0OK. \u00a0Let&#8217;s move on to the sales and business service taxes. \u00a0They&#8217;re going to gravely handicap Minnesota business.<\/p>\n<p>LIBRELLE: \u00a0 Yeah<em>\u00a0<\/em>(makes scare quotes in air) &#8220;<em>right<\/em>&#8220;.<\/p>\n<p>ME: \u00a0Um &#8211; say what?<\/p>\n<p>LIBRELLE:\u00a0Yeah<em>\u00a0<\/em>(makes scare quotes in air) &#8220;<em>right<\/em>&#8220;.<\/p>\n<p>ME: \u00a0Er&#8230;<\/p>\n<p>LIBRELLE: \u00a0That means &#8220;I suppose that makes sense, if you&#8217;re a wingnut&#8221;.<\/p>\n<p>ME: \u00a0OK. \u00a0How about the DFL gutting the mining industry up in the Iron Range, or for that matter trying to strangle the frac sand mining business in the southwest? \u00a0The metro area environmental liberal lobby seems to have pretty much seized control of the DFL.<\/p>\n<p>LIBRELLE: \u00a0Why do you hate the children?<\/p>\n<p>ME: \u00a0That&#8217;s not an answer! \u00a0That&#8217;s an insult and a deflection!<\/p>\n<p>LIBRELLE: \u00a0Hah! \u00a0The wingnut is having a meltdown!<\/p>\n<p>ME: \u00a0(Deep breath). \u00a0OK. \u00a0How about election fraud.<\/p>\n<p>LIBRELLE: \u00a0There&#8217;s not a single reported case anywhere.<\/p>\n<p>ME: <a href=\"http:\/\/www.foxnews.com\/politics\/2013\/02\/19\/ohio-poll-worker-obama-supporter-investigated-for-potentially-voting-six-times\/\">Yes there is<\/a>.<\/p>\n<p>LIBRELLE: \u00a0There&#8217;s not a single reported case anywhere.<\/p>\n<div>ME: Sure <a href=\"https:\/\/www.google.com\/url?sa=t&amp;rct=j&amp;q=&amp;esrc=s&amp;source=web&amp;cd=4&amp;cad=rja&amp;ved=0CE4QFjAD&amp;url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.breitbart.com%2FBig-Government%2F2012%2F10%2F09%2FNevada-Acorn-Conviction-Upheld&amp;ei=jWcmUdu4Mofj2QW6wYCgBw&amp;usg=AFQjCNGiO-CJFR5fhXmCWpmDVRD5yH4bMQ&amp;sig2=oM_b9WrvenSd2V2vDGUyWg&amp;bvm=bv.42661473,d.b2I\">there is<\/a>.<\/div>\n<div>\n<p>LIBRELLE: \u00a0There&#8217;s not a single reported case anywhere.<\/p>\n<p>ME: \u00a0Sure <a href=\"https:\/\/www.google.com\/url?sa=t&amp;rct=j&amp;q=&amp;esrc=s&amp;source=web&amp;cd=7&amp;cad=rja&amp;ved=0CGYQFjAG&amp;url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.prnewswire.com%2Fnews-releases%2Fminnesota-leads-the-nation-in-voter-fraud-convictions-131782928.html&amp;ei=jWcmUdu4Mofj2QW6wYCgBw&amp;usg=AFQjCNFZEVYrMAXB5TXB6SyfF-z1dHxp0w&amp;sig2=0E2voICPXDbB_QbdtaUw3A&amp;bvm=bv.42661473,d.b2I\">is<\/a>!<\/p>\n<p>LIBRELLE: \u00a0There&#8217;s not a single reported case anywhere!~<\/p>\n<p>ME: \u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/www.google.com\/url?sa=t&amp;rct=j&amp;q=&amp;esrc=s&amp;source=web&amp;cd=2&amp;cad=rja&amp;ved=0CEAQFjAB&amp;url=http%3A%2F%2Fdailycaller.com%2F2010%2F11%2F23%2Fthe-voter-fraud-hall-of-shame-milwaukee-voter-fraud-conviction-makes-acorn%25E2%2580%2599s-2010-total-at-least-15%2F&amp;ei=EmgmUc2FCMTS2QXoyIHQBA&amp;usg=AFQjCNEiYik5sWlk6k_nog6j1SIQuI4rzw&amp;sig2=3QbDKvFHQwcwOqMO58ziiA&amp;bvm=bv.42661473,d.b2I\">Yes there is<\/a>. \u00a0OK, we see where that one&#8217;s going&#8230;<\/p>\n<p>LIBRELLE: \u00a0Oh, so\u00a0<em>you&#8217;re\u00a0<\/em>the one who says how debates are supposed to go. \u00a0I&#8217;m\u00a0<em>soooooo\u00a0<\/em>sorry.<\/p>\n<p>ME: \u00a0Er, focusing on facts is an important part of rational debate.<\/p>\n<p>LIBRELLE: \u00a0Well, who died and appointed you debate king?<\/p>\n<p>ME: \u00a0(Rubs forehead) \u00a0OK. \u00a0How about daycare unionization?<\/p>\n<p>LIBRELLE: \u00a0You got pulled over in 2007 for having expired tabs!<\/p>\n<p>ME: \u00a0Er&#8230;OK? \u00a0So what?<\/p>\n<p>LIBRELLE: \u00a0Why should we listen to someone who has contempt for the law?<\/p>\n<p>ME: \u00a0That&#8217;s utterly unrelated to anything we&#8217;re debating about, and was a non-issue even then.<\/p>\n<p>LIBRELLE: Oh, yeah. \u00a0Move the goalposts. \u00a0Typical.<\/p>\n<p>ME: \u00a0No goalposts are being moved; there&#8217;s just no rational reason to unionize daycare providers. \u00a0For starters, they&#8217;re self-employed; the people who pay them aren&#8217;t &#8220;Management&#8221;, they&#8217;re customers.<\/p>\n<p>LIBRELLE: \u00a0Here&#8217;s a <a href=\"https:\/\/www.google.com\/url?sa=t&amp;rct=j&amp;q=&amp;esrc=s&amp;source=web&amp;cd=4&amp;cad=rja&amp;ved=0CEoQFjAD&amp;url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.afscme.org%2Funion%2Fjobs-we-do%2Fearly-childhood-education%2Fresources%2Fchild-care-providers-and-afscme-leading-the-way-to-better-care-and-better-lives&amp;ei=rmkmUbPKBYXI2AW3sIDACQ&amp;usg=AFQjCNGA4_CXQ2PsXg-oKPRjdQH61d-1eg&amp;sig2=EzOPa_6jKRnhb6Ln5goFzw&amp;bvm=bv.42661473,d.b2I\">study<\/a> that proves you wrong!<\/p>\n<p>ME: \u00a0It&#8217;s not a study. \u00a0It&#8217;s an AFSCME press release.<\/p>\n<p>LIBRELLE: \u00a0Clearly you don&#8217;t care for fact.<\/p>\n<p>ME: Clearly you googled &#8220;Child Care Unionization Is Good&#8221;, and that&#8217;s the first result you found that agreed with your premise.<\/p>\n<p>LIBRELLE: \u00a0So you hate facts and children AND Google!<\/p>\n<p>ME: \u00a0So after reading Minnesota leftyblogs, you&#8217;ve learned to &#8220;Debate&#8221; with insults, chanting points, strawmen, ad-homina, deflection and personal attacks?<\/p>\n<p>LIBRELLE: \u00a0Don&#8217;t you hate being pwn3d?<\/p>\n<p>ME: Um, yeah. \u00a0That&#8217;s exactly it.<\/p>\n<p>LIBRELLE: \u00a0I win!<\/p>\n<\/div>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>I met my old friend Avery LIBRELLE at an &#8220;Au Bon Pain&#8221; in New Prague the other day. LIBRELLE: \u00a0So \u00a0you keep writing that you think liberals in Minnesota never really learn how to debate conservatives. ME: \u00a0Yep. \u00a0It&#8217;s true. \u00a0A liberal in Minnesota can come up through primary and secondary education systems that more [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[23],"tags":[236],"class_list":["post-34406","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-geekery","tag-dramatization"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"http:\/\/www.shotinthedark.info\/wp\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/34406","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"http:\/\/www.shotinthedark.info\/wp\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"http:\/\/www.shotinthedark.info\/wp\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/www.shotinthedark.info\/wp\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/www.shotinthedark.info\/wp\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcomments&post=34406"}],"version-history":[{"count":6,"href":"http:\/\/www.shotinthedark.info\/wp\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/34406\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":34460,"href":"http:\/\/www.shotinthedark.info\/wp\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/34406\/revisions\/34460"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"http:\/\/www.shotinthedark.info\/wp\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fmedia&parent=34406"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/www.shotinthedark.info\/wp\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcategories&post=34406"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/www.shotinthedark.info\/wp\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Ftags&post=34406"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}