{"id":34291,"date":"2013-02-14T06:48:04","date_gmt":"2013-02-14T12:48:04","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.shotinthedark.info\/wp\/?p=34291"},"modified":"2013-10-30T12:22:03","modified_gmt":"2013-10-30T17:22:03","slug":"34291","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"http:\/\/www.shotinthedark.info\/wp\/?p=34291","title":{"rendered":"That Growing Sense The DFL Lost That One"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>I used to read a lot of liberal bloggers. \u00a0I don&#8217;t so much anymore; part of it&#8217;s the time; part of it is that there are so few good ones.<\/p>\n<p>A few Minnesota liberal blogs &#8211; one in particular, but I&#8217;m not naming names &#8211; have a particularly annoying habit when they get pressed in an argument with a rare conservative commenter; if it&#8217;s not going well for them, one of the blog&#8217;s writers will dig hard to wrench context hard enough to find some sort of offense in the comment; he&#8217;ll feign the Victorian Vapours at the (contrived) offense&#8230;<\/p>\n<p>&#8230;which has the side-effect of taking the focus of the debate off of, well, the debate.<\/p>\n<p>I&#8217;m not sure I&#8217;m surprised to hear this next story &#8211; that the Minnesota DFL is using the same precise tactic after having been shredded in the marketplace of public opinion last week.<\/p>\n<p>I\u00a0<em>am\u00a0<\/em>a little surprised at the person asking the questions.<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>From: Nick Coleman &lt;[redacted]@[The Uptake].org&gt;<\/p>\n<p>Date: Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 8:15 AM<\/p>\n<p>Subject: guns at capitol query<\/p>\n<p>To: [redacted]@gocra-mn.org<\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-family: Georgia, 'Bitstream Charter', serif; font-style: italic;\">Joe, Andrew, et al:<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-family: Georgia, 'Bitstream Charter', serif; font-style: italic;\">There is a growing sense at the Capitol that the presence of so many guns during last week&#8217;s gun control hearings affected the process, or even intimidated Legislators. Would you please comment today for a story I am writing for The UpTake?<\/span><\/p>\n<p>Is it possible to debate guns in a room full of guns?<\/p>\n<p>Thanks,<\/p>\n<p>Nick Coleman<\/p>\n<p>Executive Editor, The UpTake<\/p>\n<p>www.theuptake.org<\/p>\n<p>651-747-[redacted]<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>Oh, good lord.<\/p>\n<p>The &#8220;Growing Sense&#8221; is weasel words for &#8220;a conclusion that we can&#8217;t actually substantiate&#8221;.<\/p>\n<p>A little background here: a carry permittee &#8211; a person who has passed a background check and taken a training course &#8211; can get permission to carry in the Capitol and the State Office Buildings by informing the head of Capitol security they intend to do so.<\/p>\n<p>And those notifications <a href=\"https:\/\/www.google.com\/search?q=carry+at+state+capitol+minnesota+&amp;oq=carry+at+state+capitol+minnesota+&amp;aqs=chrome.0.57j62l3.9781&amp;sourceid=chrome&amp;ie=UTF-8\">spiked big-time<\/a> before Gun Week, last week, as carry permittees &#8211; out of symbolism or the practical desire not to have to sweat storing their firearms in their cars &#8211; filed with the capitol cops.<\/p>\n<p>Are some legislators intimidated by the existence of firearms? \u00a0No doubt.<\/p>\n<p>Are they right to be intimidated by a population that is <a href=\"http:\/\/www.shotinthedark.info\/wp\/?p=5358\">two orders of magnitude less likely to commit any significant crime than the general public<\/a>?<\/p>\n<p>No more than they would be to feel &#8220;intimidated&#8221; by exercise of free speech, worship, press (or radio) or assembly &#8211; although some of them are. \u00a0And they&#8217;re wrong then, too.<\/p>\n<p>And the cutesy final question: &#8220;Is it possible to debate guns in a room full of guns?&#8221; \u00a0Given the reality &#8211; carry permittees are safer to be around than just about anyone &#8211; the answer is &#8220;just as possible as it is in a room full of speech, assembly or religion&#8221;.<\/p>\n<p>But let&#8217;s cut the crap: the only &#8220;growing sense&#8221; is among the DFL Caucus&#8217; PR flaks (and, let&#8217;s be honest, Alida Messinger and Carrie Lucking) that they need to do something good &#8216;n Alinsky-riffic to try to undercut the groundswell of popular opinion that swarmed the Capitol last week and <a href=\"http:\/\/www.shotinthedark.info\/wp\/?p=34168\">humiliated the DFL representatives<\/a> and their <a href=\"http:\/\/www.shotinthedark.info\/wp\/?p=34161\">copy-and-pasted bills<\/a>.<\/p>\n<p>Andrew Rothman, VP of the Gun Owners Civil Rights Alliance, had a response too. \u00a0It&#8217;s below the jump. \u00a0And it includes a classic story about Heather Martens, from the late Joel Rosenberg, that is perhaps one of the best examples of the hyperbolic hypocrisy of the gun-grabber movement&#8230;<\/p>\n<p>&#8230;and its&#8217; new stenographer, Nick Coleman.<\/p>\n<p><!--more--><\/p>\n<blockquote><p>Nick,<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>To what &#8220;growing sense&#8221; are you referring? It sounds like imprecise use of language, a lapse in actual journalism, and an attempt to make a story where none exists.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Civil rights supporters brought well over 2,000 people to the capitol over the five hearings. The gun control advocates from Citizens-For-A-Safer-Minnesota-Protect-Minnesota-Working-To-End-Gun-Violence-Repeal-Conceal-Minnesotans-Against-Being-Shot claim to have brought 200 people, which might be true, if one includes in the count the 100 children bused in as props for Don Samuels&#8217; odd stump speech (given while testifying for a bill that all sides agreed was mostly a good idea).<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Both the chief House Sergeant at Arms and the commanding State Trooper, both responsible for safety and security at the hearings, complimented the pro-rights crowd for being extraordinarily well behaved. &#8220;If every large group was this well behaved, my job would be a lot easier,&#8221; was one of the comments.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>The gun control advocates didn&#8217;t have the numbers, the facts, or even the majority of the committee on their side. They couldn&#8217;t even get the most controversial bills&#8217; author, Alice Hausman, to stay in the room to present &#8220;her&#8221; bills. (Have you written about that oddity, or where Rep. Paymar started to call Heather &#8220;Representative&#8221;?)<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><span style=\"font-family: Georgia, 'Bitstream Charter', serif; font-style: italic;\">Of course they later fell back on the spurious claim of &#8220;intimidation&#8221; from a group more law abiding that the general population, more law abiding than Mayors Against Illegal Guns, and a group whose members were unfailingly polite and well-behaved.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Here&#8217;s how intimidating gun owners are in this state: `Way back in 2007, Heather Martens and I were invited to join a University of Minnesota student organization in a debate over carry on campus.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>As usual, gun rights supporters outnumbered gun ban supporters by a significant margin. The room was packed to the rafters with lawfully carrying permit holders.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>As Joel Rosenberg wrote at the time:<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>I guess it could be argued \u2014 save for one thing \u2014 that she felt that her activism was important enough to take the risk of being in a room with dozens of people carrying, as they say, \u201cloaded, concealed handguns\u201d, which the CSM folks have assured us is a very dangerous thing to do. I guess it could be argued that she should be commended for her bravery, to take those risks to debate awkwardly (and it was awkward; Heather doesn&#8217;t do all that well in an interactive forum) against the commonsense notion that somebody who is licensed to carry a handgun in public can do so properly at the U if they\u2019re a student or staff member, rather than just a visitor.<\/p>\n<p>I guess she could congratulate herself on that courage, taking those risks. Except for the one thing that makes it clear that even Heather doesn&#8217;t think there really were any risks in arguing with and among dozens of armed permit holders . . . one thing that makes it clear that even Heather knows that being around armed permit holders isn\u2019t risky at all:<\/p>\n<p>. . . she brought not only her husband, but her three-year-old daughter. Cute kid.<\/p>\n<p>So, that &#8220;growing sense&#8221;? No, I won&#8217;t answer your &#8220;when did you stop beating your wife&#8221; question, because it is based on a false, question-begging premise.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Best,<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Andrew<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p><\/blockquote>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>I used to read a lot of liberal bloggers. \u00a0I don&#8217;t so much anymore; part of it&#8217;s the time; part of it is that there are so few good ones. A few Minnesota liberal blogs &#8211; one in particular, but I&#8217;m not naming names &#8211; have a particularly annoying habit when they get pressed in [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[132,22,100],"tags":[270],"class_list":["post-34291","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-mn-legislature","category-victim-disarmament","category-your-papers-please","tag-2nd-amendment-grass-roots"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"http:\/\/www.shotinthedark.info\/wp\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/34291","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"http:\/\/www.shotinthedark.info\/wp\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"http:\/\/www.shotinthedark.info\/wp\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/www.shotinthedark.info\/wp\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/www.shotinthedark.info\/wp\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcomments&post=34291"}],"version-history":[{"count":4,"href":"http:\/\/www.shotinthedark.info\/wp\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/34291\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":39418,"href":"http:\/\/www.shotinthedark.info\/wp\/index.php?rest_route=\/wp\/v2\/posts\/34291\/revisions\/39418"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"http:\/\/www.shotinthedark.info\/wp\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fmedia&parent=34291"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/www.shotinthedark.info\/wp\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Fcategories&post=34291"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"http:\/\/www.shotinthedark.info\/wp\/index.php?rest_route=%2Fwp%2Fv2%2Ftags&post=34291"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}