Bystander in the St. Louis area shoots a serial violent armed robber:
A man who police say went on a “violent crime spree” at three gas stations was shot and killed by a customer armed with a gun, Missouri police say.
It happened around 3:20 a.m. on Saturday, July 16, in St. Charles, just outside St. Louis. The St. Charles Police Department said the 26-year-old robbery suspect, who is from St. Louis, died at a local hospital after being shot by a witness.
While I expected the knife wielding robber was “just getting his life together“, I’ve had no written confirmation.
All I know is, it’s been a good week for the good guys.
Vigilantism! I predict the next new trend in sad, angry media reports. And how something must be done.
Maybe the word will get out that crime is a dangerous game again.
Hateful, just hateful.
The guy was merely taking up a collection for sunrise service at his local house of worship, which he had driven past and very nearly attended on several occasions.
The dead child was only hours away from choosing to devote his life to Good Works when he was ruthlessly slaughtered by a hateful racist wielding a weapon of war, who is now heralded as a ‘hero’ despite the fact absolutely nobody was killed during this string of ad-hoc-wealth-redistribution-actions except the member of a historically oppressed group: the downtrodden.
Tellingly, the shooter had no permit to carry a loaded gun in public, did not attempt to get back in his car to drive to safety, and did not call 911 to let trained professional violence interrupters handle the situation. Instead, he willingly armed himself, rushed into the store, and cold-bloodedly murdered the youth who while he was chatting with the store clerk about financial and personal safety issues, even offering to let the gunman deliver the collection for him, saying “I’ve got something for you.”
There will be a protest. We’ll all be wearing T-shirts bearing Lance Bush’s baby picture. The march will be held at 3:00 p.m. on a bright, sunny Sunday afternoon at the gas station to authentically but safely replicate the conditions when the murder occurred. Contact your pastor for details.
Tellingly, the shooter had no permit to carry a loaded gun in public, did not attempt to get back in his car to drive to safety, and did not call 911 to let trained professional violence interrupters handle the situation.
You are correct, Joe Doakes. This so-called “Good Samaritan” completely ignored the “Uvalde Protocol” developed by law enforcement experts to reduce casualties when there is a mass shooting. Key to the “Uvalde Protocol” is pretending that you don’t have a gun. In the case of the Indiana mall shooter, what the “Good Samaritan” should have done is flee the mall and call law enforcement, even if this means waking them up from their after afternoon siesta.
If guns made an individual or a community or a country safer, the United States would be the safest place on the planet, and other countries would be rushing to pass their own versions of the 2nd Amendment.
Given the sentiment that gun ownership will protect me, mine, and broader society there is either a preponderance of evidence, or there is not. In this case, I am pretty sure not.
law enforcement experts to reduce law enforcement casualties when there is a mass shooting
FIFY
Pretend there was a state which said: “Law-abiding citizens are allowed to own a firearm but you are not allowed to use it for self-defense or defense of others, only for hunting pheasants or deer with a valid hunting permit. Citizens which use a firearm for self-defense or defense of others will be prosecuted for murder and if convicted, will be hung by the neck until dead. Criminals can do whatever they want, they will anyway.”
Would the presence of guns make that state a safe place? I suggest not.
Maybe it’s not the guns. Maybe it’s who has the guns, and how they’re allowed to use them, that makes the difference.
rAT Emery squeaked: “Given the sentiment that gun ownership will protect me, mine, and broader society…”
Breaking news, rAT. My firearms will do less than nothing to protect “you and yours”. I honestly wouldn’t piss on you and yours if all y’all were on fire. And considering that at least 30% of the broader society consists of steaming heaps of shit like you and your’s, they can get BTFO, too. Enjoy the diversity.
Glad I could clear that up for you.
Emery, I see, is a whole-hearted supporter of law enforcement’s “Uvalde Protocol.”
^^ About 400 officers at the Uvalde dust up? That’s actually a pretty thick blue line. To give some perspective, a Marine Corps infantry battalion is about 800 people. With this many people you could reasonably assault and hold a medium sized city.
Obviously, the good guy with a gun is an occasional reality, as is the occasional accidental death by firearm.
But we are not guaranteed the right to bear arms because guns make us feel safe.
When in doubt, go to the source:
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
Any argument for private gun ownership that strays from the test of the 2nd amendment is doomed to fail because it fails to be an argument about rights. Instead it becomes an argument about social studies.
The Uvalde protocol covers law enforcement as well as civilians.
Pretend that you don’t have a gun. Call law enforcement.
Note that the heroes of Uvalde followed this protocol precisely. Local cops called state cops, state cops called called in federal cops.
At that point they had reached the top level of law enforcement and so had no choice but to act.
If they had waited for UN peacekeepers to show up, they’d be there still, racking up the over time.
Emery, you are such a dumb ass.
Blade nailed it, because if I were unfortunate enough to be your neighbor, I would be very hesitant to come to your aid if some thug was giving you a beat down. Since you frequently let your Lexus mouth override your Model T ass, my first thought would be that you probably deserved it. Maybe you want to move your ass back to one of the new communist countries like your native Canada, Australia or New Zealand. The latter two, grabbed a lot of guns a few years ago, but yet, violent crime, especially home invasions, have jumped up almost 60%.
With the number of legal gun owners in the U.S. if we had a gun problem, you would know it.
^^ You seem to have a notion that a ‘good guy with a gun’ could stem mass shootings. In reality, it hasn’t worked out like that.
Any time you have to sink to a dick measuring contest, you’ve already lost the argument at hand.
“You seem to have a notion that a ‘good guy with a gun’ could stem mass shootings. In reality, it hasn’t worked out like that.”
Maybe we don’t have enough Good Guys with Guns?
Maybe we don’t allow Good Guys with Guns into the places where mass shootings occur, so the Good Guys aren’t in place to stop mass shootings?
Maybe we don’t have enough Good Guys with Guns who willing to take the risk of being prosecuted for shooting a spree killer instead of retreating to a safe place and allowing the killer to go on killing?
Lots of variables not accounted for in your dick measuring contest. Looks like your argument comes up short.
^^ At the core of right-wing politics and evangelism is marketing of an identity, one of strength and self-reliance and righteousness, a marketing no different from what you’d find in a beer commercial. It’s not ideological or philosophical or scriptural, like a tall billboard of the Marlboro Man it’s not the product that is sold but an identity for the consumer. This is a magic mirror phenomenon, the spell isn’t broken by personal dependence on government entitlements or contradictions found in actual Christian doctrine.
The reality of the Marlboro Man is that he has lung cancer, the reality of the beer commercial is that the drinkers are overweight and sloppy, the reality of guns is that they’re expensive and seldom used for any useful purpose, the reality of right-wing politics is that the interests of the middle-class rural faithful are consistently sacrificed for the wealthy. But the product isn’t what’s important, the billboard sells a mythical identity for the consumer.
Imagine a place where there is a cop walking the beat on every block. In Minneapolis, that’d be thousands of cops, all on foot patrol, instantly ready to respond to crimes, connected by radio to rapid response units for backup.
There’d be a LOT more guns on the streets, but would that place be more or less safe than Minneapolis today?
Imagine a place where the city can’t afford that many cops so the chief law enforcement officer actively solicits law-abiding citizens to supplement the official police forces, willingly grants them permits to carry loaded guns in public, authorizes them to Stand Their Ground and shoot criminal suspects who are attempting to harm others; and who refuses to file charges against a Supplemental Officer who shoots a criminal suspect under those circumstances.
Again, there’d be a LOT more guns on the streets, but would the average citizen find that place to be more safer or less safe than, say, Minneapolis today? St. Louis? Baltimore?
I believe in “good guys with guns.” I believe they should be members of the military or a police agency or department.
Do “members of the military or a police agency or department” have big dicks?
The reality of the Marlboro Man […] a mythical identity for the consumer
Man, Look at you mowing down all those strawme-, strawpersons. Whatta big-dick man you are.
Emery, regarding the notion that guns are rarely used to any good purpose, you would do well to educate yourself a bit. Back during the Clinton administration, the DOJ, no friend to gun owners at the time, estimated about 1.7 million defensive uses of guns annually. That’s not “rare” at all. Yes, thankfully the gun is not even fired most of the time–because the criminal realizes that he could end up with a severe case of acute lead poisoning.
Regarding the notion that nations would enact US-style laws if they worked, for starters, Czechia liberalized their gun laws a few years back, and arguably Ukraine (Putin delenda est!) is as well. In other countries, they unfortunately have entrenched bureaucracies and political movements that have unfortunately learned the same false lessons that you have.
Really, the U.S. problem with gun violence is strongly correlated with inner city troubles. Fix the family in the inner city and given them opportunities outside the drug trade, and the U.S. murder rate starts to look like that of western Europe.
“I believe they should be members of the military or a police agency or department.”
Why?
Emery, I’m pretty sure that most people, including some women that I know, would need a gun to stomp you into a red blotch on the sidewalk.
“Maybe we don’t have enough Good Guys with Guns who willing to take the risk of being prosecuted for shooting a spree killer instead of retreating to a safe place and allowing the killer to go on killing?”
Exactly. I might be wrong, but I’m unaware of any instance where someone that was saved by someone with a firearm came to their defense when they were charged with a crime, or a civil suit.
There are very few instances I’d get involved where I wasn’t already involved. Point a gun or a knife at me, my friends or family? I’ll shoot you dead; count on it.
Point a gun at someone I don’t know from next week? 8/10 not. In a leftist shithole? Zero chance I’ll do anything but leave.
A well-equipped military/police department, being necessary to the security of a free state, the power of the government to keep and bear arms against its own citizens, shall not be infringed.
Your version doesn’t have quite the same intent as the one the Founders gave us, Emery. Tell us why your version is preferable to theirs?
That myth (a good guy with a gun..) is used to excuse inaction all over the country. There were 29 “good guys” in Uvalde, yet the shooter was not stopped.
Furthermore, and more importantly, are 3 dead people ok? Or 5 wounded, as was the case with the Indiana shooting? In 433 mass shootings, 284 ended before the police arrived, and 12 ended by shooting by a bystander. 111 ended not by a “good guy with a gun” but by suicide, which is a “bad guy with a gun”.
You seek, through anecdote, to justify this mythology and in so, you treat the symptom, not the illness. It’s as if you think that if a bomb only blows up half a building that somehow means it’s a victory if the building’s structure meant it didn’t fall down. The GOP, except when forced by events, refuses to honestly examine the source of the shooting – and please, don’t say they do because they now, johnny come lately, want to “fund mental health research.” For years (the GOP) cut it constantly, nor do most really want to enforce red-flag laws – you (the NRA at least and much of the far right) seek to dilute such laws. Much more importantly, though, you want to point as a cause to things like mental health that exist everywhere, yet we are unique. The GONRA isn’t willing to examine the motivations for violence, for picking up arms. They try to prevent research into whether we venerate firearms and probably with it, venerate “acting out” against oppressors – perhaps leading to far too many young men thinking taking up arms to voice their outrage, is right. I’m not an expert, it’s just a suggestion for the cause, but the GOP refuses to even allow for the research (at the federal level).
Read the data for yourself.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2022/06/22/us/shootings-police-response-uvalde-buffalo.html
but also, please save your breath and don’t try to suggest that it’s only because so few people in those events were armed. First, we are the most heavily armed society on the planet and second, neither you nor I know who or how many people in those 433 events (or the immediate area) were armed. Likely, it was a LOT more than 12. So, since it isn’t known, you can’t make any conclusion. What we DO know, is that the figure was 12 (bystanders) and the ‘bad guy’ wasn’t most often stopped by someone else who was armed, but by themselves.
So, no Mitch, the “only thing which stops a bad guy with a gun” is not a good guy, but rather, nearly every other thing. In total, it turned out it was roughly 130 cases of someone (other than the shooter) once we include the police, which were stopped by firearm, hardly surprising that firearms are about 1/3rd given it’s a mass shooting event – but it’s not “the only thing” it’s not even the most common thing.
But, belief in myth because of anecdote is hardly a new thing for you. You believe in vote fraud despite numerous investigations and statements that it isn’t wide-spread, meaningful or common. You believe Trump is a good man and candidate despite the repeated cases of his abject cruelty being displayed, despite his clear abiding disdain for the law. You believe Climate Change isn’t human caused. This list is rather long, so I’ll stop there.
My only question for you is, when are YOU, Mitch, along with the party of personal responsibility, ever going to be responsible for recognizing your errors, that you cleave to convenient myth to justify your cruelty and hatred/de-humanization of others, and seek to change yourself instead, to take responsibility for your willful ignorance and seek a real solution.
Emery on July 19, 2022 at 11:20 am said:
I believe in “good guys with guns.” I believe they should be members of the military or a police agency or department.
Like I said, a proponent of the Uvalde Protocol.
Peeve, no one is going to read a long form essay.
If you can’t make your point in less than 600 words, you aren’t doing it right.
Joe Doakes on July 19, 2022 at 11:14 am said:
Imagine a place where there is a cop walking the beat on every block. In Minneapolis, that’d be thousands of cops, all on foot patrol, instantly ready to respond to crimes, connected by radio to rapid response units for backup.
There’d be a LOT more guns on the streets, but would that place be more or less safe than Minneapolis today?
Your premise is wrong, Joe Doakes. Current orthodoxy says that putting more armed cops on the streets makes neighborhoods LESS safe.
You know, like a woman can have a penis and impregnate a man. it’s all an inversion of reality, and since the radicals run ALL of our society’s fundamental institutions, we are in a position where the insane are trying to commit us normal people in the asylum they have built.
Say Peevee?
My response to witnessing violence against you is a bit different than rAT.
If I was to see some hood rat drag your scrawny ass out of your car by the hair, deliver an epic ass beating and then point a gun at you, 9/10 chance I’ll tell him if the safety is on.
Just so we’re clear.
You believe Trump is a good man and candidate despite the repeated cases of his abject cruelty being displayed, despite his clear abiding disdain for the law
Tell me you don’t actually read Mitch without telling me you don’t read Mitch. Bagging on Trump is a regular feature here. It’s quite possible to believe Trump is a scoundrel and also profoundly wronged.
I’m always willing to be educated. Go ahead, P, tell us: what is the REAL SOLUTION to gun deaths in America? I’m particularly interested in the implementation details of your REAL SOLUTION.
The numbers change every year but out of an average 39,000 firearms deaths per year, more than 23,000 are suicides. An increasing number are youngsters but most are still old white men who nothing to live for since they lost their wives and careers. They generally don’t run out to buy a gun to commit suicide, they generally have owned the gun for years. Please detail how your REAL SOLUTION will keep those men alive.
Of the remaining 16,000 firearms deaths per year, 14,000 are murders mostly shootings committed by criminals who aren’t entitled to kill people and aren’t legally entitled to be in possession of guns to do it. Please detail your REAL SOLUTION to making sure criminals obey the law.
When we agree on how to implement your REAL SOLUTION to cover the vast majority of gun deaths in America, I’ll be willing to discuss the remaining 500 deaths, the hard cases: police shootings, Good Guy with a Gun shootings, home defense shootings. But I don’t want to start with the thin edge of the wedge. Show me how your REAL SOLUTION will stop gun deaths at the thick edge of the wedge.
Show me how you’ll prevent suicides nationwide and end gun violence in St. Louis, Baltimore, Chicago, Detroit, Minneapolis. I honestly want to know.
Since they are both obviously a clear and present danger to Western civilization, some might wonder, “Blade, why is your rhetorical abuse of Peevee is so much worse than rAT Emery?”
The answer is simple.
Peevee is of at least average intelligence, and someone wasted time trying to give him an education. rAT Emery is a low IQ idiot dealing with multiple mental deficiencies.
The country would be better off without either of them, but willful ignorance deserves especially harsh treatment.
JD asks: “Go ahead, P, tell us: what is the REAL SOLUTION to gun deaths in America?”
We all know the answer to that, but we haven’t reached the required pain level to gather the critical mass necessary carry out the only reasoned solution available…yet.
There are an estimated 400 million guns in the US. Of that total, approximately 0.4% are used for criminal purposes any given year. The vast majority of people are not going to hand them in without a fight of some kind, and attempting to take them by force is guaranteed to start CWII
There are an estimated 41.1 million black people in the US (12.8%). Out of that population, 62% of violent crimes, and the overwhelming majority of death by firearms are committed.
Tell me Peevee, use your big brain…where does the reasoned, rational solution start?
So Cali has legalized assisted suicide, but is working on reducing suicide by gun.
Krazee, no?
If someone blows their brains out, where’s the profit, UMMP?
Tell me you don’t actually read Mitch without telling me you don’t read Mitch
Adroitly put, although I might argue for the Otto perspective:
Otto: Apes don’t read philosophy.
Wanda: Yes they do, Otto. They just don’t understand it.
There are an estimated 400 million guns…
Well stated argument.
Peevee regurgitated: “neither you nor I know who or how many people in those 433 events (or the immediate area) were armed. Likely, it was a LOT more than 12.”
Since the *overwhelming* majority of those events happened in black neighborhoods, you’re right. Black gangsters have started carrying several weapons with them at all times….in case they are disrespected by several rivals, or Popeye’s runs out of sauce.
Congratulations.
Blade, you can reduce that 12.8% number quite a bit. There are 41.1 million blacks in this country, but only a fraction of them are involved in committing those violent crimes. Mostly males, very few children (and for the purposes of this argument, “children” stops at age 14-15 or so), and very few older (50 years old or older) adults. Just spitballin’ here, but it’s probably closer to only 3% of the population of this country commits 62% of violent crimes.
^ Since Democrats own most if not all of the biggest cities and have for years along with the educational systems and social help systems, I await their apologies for being the primary engine behind the creation and maintenance of these black gangsters. Who seem to be broadening both their nastiness and geographical scope.
“There are 41.1 million blacks in this country, but only a fraction of them are involved in committing those violent crimes….it’s probably closer to only 3% of the population of this country commits 62% of violent crimes. ”
Due respect, but you’re dreaming, Bill; it’s a large fraction. I’d estimate at least 20 – 25% attempt to commit, or commit murder or grievous bodily harm, 45% commit violent crimes, and *at least* 60% commit casual crimes of opportunity. Any average assault by blacks involves *at least* 4 individuals. They rarely attack alone unless they are armed, or against a woman. So for every arrest, at least a couple get away.
Their children commit violent crimes in public schools every day! Taken as a whole, the black population has no impulse control.
Thanks, jdm. I rarely respond to leftist nitwits with anything other than contemptuous mockery, but I too often forget the majority of SITD readers are intelligent men.
If I move the awareness needle an inch, I’ve done my job.
Consider this Bill. Most murders involve blacks, most blacks are killed by blacks. The victims usually refuse to cooperate with the cops, so how may convictions result? 50% would be generous.
They are a plague.
https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-2019/topic-pages/tables/table-43
One more anecdote, Bill.
After 25 years, my BIL retired from Attica prison (in NY…ptooey), and says White murders were always the easiest to deal with. Most White murders are crimes of passion, most White murderers never commit another murder.
How many times have you read the sheet on a black murderer that includes at least one other attempted or successful murder?
Paddywhacker:
You are funny! Using the NY Slimes to “support” your biased argument, which you probably got from another left wing propaganda rag.
I would actually pay to see what you or your buddy Emery would do if a couple of gang bangers decided that it was your turn to redistribute your stuff to them, at about 2:00 a.m. and break into your houses.
My bet is that you’d both be either dead or incapacitated before you could dial 9-1-1. Even then, when seconds count, the racist police are only minutes away, like 15-20, if you live in a shit hole run by DemoCommies.
Paddyboy, yes, there were a lot of police officers in Uvalde–the Houston Chronicle reports 376, not 29–and all held back for one reason or another. Part of the reason for this is that their losses if they didn’t engage the shooter were seen as less than their losses if they did.
As we saw in the Indiana mall, the calculus changes when people realize that their choices are not “stay out and stay safe” vs. “engage and be shot”, but rather “risk being shot trying to leave” or “risk being shot trying to kill the assailant”.
Regarding the notion of how “horrible” it is that government doesn’t fund studies, it’s worth noting that the current prohibition results from days when government funded “research” tended to rather mindlessly parrot the VPC/Brady hypotheses. It was shut down for a reason.
“Despite his abject cruelty being displayed and disdain for the law”
Please paddyboy, show us your proof of said “cruelty”. How was it worse than the cruelty being inflicted upon us now by Grandpa?
And disdain for the law? Again, list the crimes he was found guilty for. Good luck!
“Don’t believe climate change human caused”. You’d first have to prove it was human caused, son. That hasn’t been done. Do you realize that after 120 year or so after Arrhenius, there’s still no repeatable experiment done showing CO2 back-radiation warming anything, even a cup of coffee? The climate cult takes a correlation (CO2 up, temp up) as “proof”. In science causation is required. Other than that…
Emery on July 19, 2022 at 11:20 am said:
I believe in “good guys with guns.” I believe they should be members of the military or a police agency or department.
Indiana “good guy with a gun,” Eli Dicken, took down the shooter fifteen seconds after he started shooting. https://twitter.com/AnneMarieWTHR/status/1549484122497843200?s=20&t=xlrC-c4x2pwhonrSJ5BGuw
Maybe Eli could give a talk to the Uvalde cops? Tell them what their f’n job is?
A 15 second kill basically means that Dicken didn’t perceive much of an option to retreat without getting a lot of people, likely including himself, killed. Paddyboy, this is why citizen concealed carry is a darned good idea. Had Dicken not intervened and the perp kept shooting, we’re talking about Uvalde death numbers.