Ryan Winkler takes a strong moral stand:
About time Ryan Winkler took a strong, courageous stand against corporate prisons…
…of which there are zero in Minnesota.
Remember when I said DFLers can count on the fact that DFL voters are overwhelmingly badly-informed and lousy at critical thought?
Any questions?
.
Yes. Question… Observation… To you Mitch.
It’s not a cause celebre that’s completely antiquated by circumstances here, such that someone like Winkler would think it’s important. There are somewhat recent business reports of CCA contemplating re-leasing their old Appleton facility back from the state (to who they sold it), and doing business with whoever would send inmates to them. That’s what’s timely here that Winkler is trying to thwart.
So no, it’s not a big nothing… Your ability to call them badly informed relies on you being completely unattuned to the business and activist beats there.
There’s “an argument” for you Mitch.
Prairie Correctional Facility, Appleton, a 1,600 bed prison, is sitting empty. The corporation which owns it, shut it down after the State of Minnesota decided to add thousands more prison beds at Faribault and Moose Lake. All the local employees lost their jobs.
Ryan Winkler opposes prisons staffed by employees of private enterprise. He does not oppose prisons staffed by public employees. This isn’t a principled stand against prisons. I suppose it could be a principled stand against capitalism or private enterprise, or against full employment for rural Minnesotans, but those seem unlikely to generate much enthusiasm for Democrats. I wonder what issue caused him to take this principled stand, to risk all, to bravely speak out?
Oh, wait, there’s a clue in the tweet. AFSCME and MAPE are public employee unions which contribute time and money to Democrat candidates who, in turn, negotiate closed shop rules, monopoly laws and high wages/benefits.
The rest of you schmucks? Fork over.
Of course, it has to come down to supplying union jobs to repay AFSCME for delivering votes. I think that’s called quid pro quo. That thing Trumphitler did before impeachment #1.
I think you’re being unfair to Winkler. Didn’t he go to Harvard?
And if public safety isn’t the responsibility of the rich and well connected, why are we taxing them to pay for it? For that matter, if it’s not the responsibility of the rich and well connected, tell me why prosperous Minnesotans are paying for apartments with security, employment places with security, and shopping malls with paid private security?
And regarding the issue of private prisons in particular, don’t we need to really demonstrate why they’re a bad idea before banning them? I’m pretty sure that there is no particular moral transformation that occurs when someone gets hired by the government.
Judging by the crime rates since Minneapolis decided to just watch a good portion of the city burn last year, I’d also dare suggest it’s time to re-open facilities like the one in Appleton.
The union worker aspect is definitely a part of Winkler’s worldview, but that doesn’t make objection to private prisons a stand made in absence of principle. Someone like Winkler believes that the government has legitimate powers of imprisonment in pursuit of justice and public safety. Right, he does not approve of incarceration contracted to private enterprise. The left critique there is that corporate run prisons are an injustice, yea, ipso facto / by definition, and that they do the job worse than the public sector and in a manner that is a civil rights abridgment due to conditions / due process. That’s really not radical, out there thinking. It’s quite arguably something of a neo market conservatism that justifies commercial solutions for everything, such as corporate run prisons, that is radical. Or dystopic.
So, it’s not a virtue signal. Winkler is a lawmaker, and the effort springs his and his constituents’ worldview, and from real contemporary business and civil rights conditions they’d seek to confront.
It’s a bad post, a shit post, that Mitch made reflexively because he doesn’t like Winkler (Which is fine. There are things to not like him for). But the post is wrong. Mitch is the one uninformed of the background. Cuz if he knew the background, he’d have no post.
There’s “an argument” Mitch.
How about Shitpost in the Dark, Mitch. Is that one all right?
Oh, forensically I’m seeing that Mitch’s shit post here comes downstream from “Drew Lee” doing a tweet on Winkler and Rob Doar chiming in with a claim of irrelevance because there are no private prisons in Minnesota.
I’ve listened to Rob on various things over the years, and I think he has a well organized mind and is smart. But that’s a shit reply guy tweet and he’s also speaking from a place of low info.
It’s just lazy, Mitch. That’s “an argument” by the way, such that you’d like to chide me to make “an argument” that you could respond to.
Yea, because we all know how well the gubmint runs things. Letting unelected morons handle our public transportation system, the MNLARS debacle, which is just one of the numerous clusters that MINIT has been involved in over the years and the overall failure of our public schools, despite the millions spent per student every year. During the mid 90s, I was involved in a project being run by MINIT. There were two “consultants” from some outfit in Chicago that came in every week for six months, that were paid $160 per hour, plus expenses. They came in, wearing their $600 suits and $200 shoes, on Tuesday mornings and left at 1:00 p.m. on Thursdays. Two directors on the project, had no idea what they did, because no one ever saw any work product from either of them.
Thanks for sticking your chin out again, Fapliar…makes an excellent ball rest.
[I’m sure Winkler would say it] makes an excellent ball rest.
Damn auto correct
I think I’d also call my critique today “where Mitch as a guy who is proud of his quasi intellectual approach to politics doesn’t actually understand what a virtue signal is”. But he understands its bad, and coin of the realm in righty thought about lefties. So he paints Winkler as a virtue signaler here in his shit post.
To virtue signal as a liberal is to be in the affluent wing and take easy, performative, and kinda absurd stances on things that have no practical import while not chipping in on the larger progressive goals that require sacrifice. There’s an element of NIMBYism there say and hypocrisy.
That’s not what Winkler is doing. Winkler really wants a prohibition on private prisons in Minnesota, for practical and ideological reasons. Its not a virtue signal.
There’s ‘an argument’ for you Mitch.
I understand that Winkler objects to the prison guard’s paycheck coming from a private employer instead of a public employer because AFSCME and MAPE won’t be able to collect union dues to forward to Democrats. That part is straightforward follow-the-money thinking.
But what’s the due process objection? I don’t get that.
Joe,
In trying to construct the liberal argument I may not have grabbed the perfect word or phrase. I was trying to present this notion that liberals don’t feel private prisons have the legit authority to manage / adjudicate sentences in the first place, adjudicate anything that happens in prison, etc.
Got it, thank you.
JK: the government contracts all kinds of work to the private sector. Take the DoD. Using contractors to function as soldiers does not give them the power to declare war. Hiring private guards in a private prison to guard your scumbag friends doesn’t mean they have anything to do with dispensing justice.
^ I know, true. And maybe Winkler’s bong hit ideal is everybody works for the government, but that’s a bit far afield. Within the ecosystem and reality we have the critique and agenda the left has formulated against private prisons is pretty well developed.
Not to speak for Winkler, but I can’t help but think he appreciates it when you jiggle his balls with your Jack jaw support, Fapliar.
“I was trying to present this notion that liberals don’t feel private prisons have the legit authority to manage / adjudicate sentences in the first place, adjudicate anything that happens in prison, etc.“
Yeah, when speaking of a group of scumbags that call together a quasi-legal forum to adjudicate complete bullshit to satisfy their political ambitions, that’s a real deep insight, dimwit.
One major thought about the the permissibility of private sector prison guards is the fact that the Constitution specifically allows letters of marque and reprisal, which was more or less allowing Congress to hire privateers, a.k.a. pirates, as an auxiliary to the Navy. Along the same lines, sheriffs have been deputizing private citizens for a long,long time.
So really, to argue that somehow a private sector, non-union jail (there’s the big issue) is not permissible simply shows that Winkler and his minions simply don’t understand American history or law. He must have learned it from the same clowns that Governor Walz appointed to revise Minnesota history standards, who have proposed eliminating all references to Washington, Lincoln, the Revolution, the Civil War, WW1 and WW2, and the Holocaust.
I’ve been thinking about the Due Process argument against private jails. I’m not certain it exists and even if it does, I’m not certain we couldn’t get around it.
Start from the proposition that crime in America can be punished only by a lawfully constituted unit of government (federal, state, county, city), and not by private individuals (vigilantes). Add the Fifth Amendment requirement that no person shall be punished without Due Process of Law which various court cases have interpreted to require Notice of the charges, an Opportutity to be heard in defense of those charges, and a Neutral decider.
When Umbrella Man is arrested by Minneapolis Police, convicted by the County Attorney and sentenced by a District Court Judge, the requirements of Due Process are fulfilled. Everyone agrees on that.
But once he arrives at Prison, Umbrella Man will be subject to various rules and regulations governing prisoner conduct. Violation may subject him to loss of privileges which may be considered a form of punishment. Right now, the person making those decisions in state prisons is the Warden, an employee of the Executive Branch Department of Corrections and not a Judge in the Judicial Branch. There’s no Due Process within the prison – the Warden decides and that’s it – so Due Process comes from an appeal to a court. Everyone accepts the present arrangement as Constitutionally sound.
Wouldn’t the same be true of a private prison? Warden imposes punishment, prisoner appeals to the Court? Why isn’t that Constitutionally sound?
If we wanted to be extra sure that private jails were operating correctly, could the Judicial Branch appoint someone to be a Special Master/Referee/Magistrate to hear and decide prisoner appeals within the facility? Assign a Public Defender to assist the prisoner in making the appeal? Why wouldn’t that fulfill all the Constitutional rquirements?
Under the current system or the proposed system, why would it matter who signs the Warden’s payckeck?
If there’s a Due Process case to be made, I don’t see that it’s a massive obstacle (particularly since private prisons have operated in America before and surely someone would have noticed the Constitutional issue before Ryan Winkler did). That makes me suspect the Due Process argument is a Red Herring to divert attention from the real issue, the one mentioned in his tweet, the public employee unions who want a monopoly on certain work and the Democrat party which wants to launder employee dues into campaign cash.
It reminds me of the controversy two years ago when Democrats wanted every daycare provider to join a public employee union, and the ongoing controversy where Democrats want to hinder charter, magnet and private schools that do not employ union members.
I’m not buying it.
The state can supervise privately-run prisons as closely as it likes. It could even require that it use a union workforce.
The only reason to propose a complete ban would be to curry favor with the public employee unions, whose names Winkler gives us.
Right, MO.
These are the same reprobates that are allowing the government school unions to deprive kids a full years education.
There is no limit to their perfidy.
government school unionsDemocrat school unions.
I stand corrected.
OT, but so what?
This morning, the MN paper of record informs us
“University of Minnesota pledges to slash graduation gaps, recruit more students of color”
Huh. And how do they propose to accomplish those mutually exclusive goals, do you think? And does it really matter?
The value of an undergraduate degree is already in the tank for many professions.
Look at the listings on any job site. As often as not, you’ll see under requirements “____ degree or equivalent experience”
And that’s for positions where education actually matters.
So, American institutions of higher education will increase the non-white, and non-Asian student population, while simultaneously increasing the grad rate.
Does anyone believe the ranks of STEM professions will swell with dusky employees that don’t trace their lineage to India?
lol no. We’ll get a wave of well educated, semi-literate social service grifters, politicians, appointees and union government functionaries.
It’ll be swell.
Only Harvard could make someone that stupid.
There’s “an argument” Mitch.
Sure, perhaps.
Being neither in prison nor involved in the criminal justice system as a producer or consumer, it’s not a stretch to think I miss a “story”.
Doesn’t change my point, or those of the other commenters. It’s virtue-signalling now, it’s sucking up to the public employee unions on whom Winkler’s power depends for later, and it is a big “FU” to a town that votes red in the bargain.
By the way, JK – let me reiterate I do not seek a conservative echo chamber, and welcome dissenters (unlike, literally, every liberal blog that’s left, out there – go ahead, leave a comment with Sally Jo Sorenson, the most brittle, insecure person in Minnesota media life. See how long before something you say gets you blocked and banned). .
But I’m curious – you repeat “There’s “an argument”” several times in this thread, and I presume several others. And for that I give you belated, at least partially sincere kudos – but, to paraphrase Chris Rock, hasten to add “what do you want, a cookie?”
After your odd little “Shit in the Dark” ejaculation the other day, I took a quick look. You’ve left 604 comments, staring with your first one on November 23, 2020.
That’s a pretty blistering pace, ahead par with some of the long-time regulars like Mammathus and Mr. D – an average of eight comments every business day (which are the only days I usually blog).
Seems like an odd juxtaposition – very heavy involvement with a group and in a forum for which you evince a weird form of…contempt? It bids one to wonder – do you do it because you think you’re flexing intellectual superiority? All due respect, but that’d be a statement based on evidence not on record.
Anyway – to the extent that you made an argument, well done and bully. Winkler’s still a weasel.
Carry on.
Mitch I’m sure he is a weasel. That’s not the point. The point is your post is a low quality shitpost, and it’s not true and it’s a category error (..not a virtue signal). Come to find, yeah, it’s explained by you copying it as a piece of twitter dialogue between Drew Lee and Rob Doar.
What, you want dissenters but you don’t? I tellya, if you think I’ve got a mental feature of excessive fixation, you outta contemplate your buddy Tom Swift and your comment section here.
because you think you’re flexing intellectual superiority?
You want a serious answer… I don’t think that’s the 5th most reason or the 15th most reason that drives me here, but such that it might be that, its indistinguishable from the leading edge of your 20 year act as a conservative debate me guy in the parts trying to prove conservatives are intellectuals, and that you yourself are an intellectual, smarter than the lefties that hold themselves up as smart.
Let’s keep doing psychoanalysis on each other and the rest of the guys here Mitch. I’m sure this could be fun.
A LOT of my own reply guy posts here were done in furtherance of establishing truth and reality from the fantasies that come from the mind of Joe Doakes. Now, you absolutely know, as a man of some reason and discernment, that Joe Doakes has posted a lot of BS here. You allow it though and don’t do any editorial work on that cuz ‘reasons’. I mean, yeah, its affinity, and you’ve got one of the only blogs that lasted with an audience, ya have content and editorial needs, you can’t do it all yourself…. yada yada. But you know some crap gets put up.
Don’t expect now and then someone won’t come by and point out there’s a lot of crap getting spewed, and that the objection can’t merely be that it’s crap.
JK, originator and definer of the term “virtue signaling,” would perhaps like to start his own blog?
In all the years I have been commenting on the internet, I have never once gone to a blog I disagreed with and told the author that he had some sort of duty to change his blog & comment approval criteria.
Seems passive-aggressive. JK wants Mitch to write what JK wants him to write, but JK doesn’t want to bother to write it himself.
Call it censorious. It bothers JK to see he does not agree with in print.
I didn’t originate that. Its a broad thing socially that we are talking about.
Look my dude, here’s a thing. You arrogant effs need to be moved off the rock solid certitude of your near retirement age bad wisdoms. You’ve had gimpy, pathetic lefty commenters here. You’re bugged cuz I’m not one of those.
02 year act as a conservative debate me guy in the parts trying to prove conservatives are intellectuals
What on earth does that mean?
that you yourself are an intellectual,
Please. I do no such thing. I’m never the smartest person in any room I’m in, least of all this comment section
than the lefties that hold themselves up as smart.
That’s an odd claim. I seek honest debate on the facts – and very rarely get it.
What should that tell someone.
Let me offer an olive branch, John K.
I wonder if the reason that you and I can’t seem to connect is because we process thoughts at different speeds?
I suspect you can read one of my comments and immediately say, “He’s stupid.” You can do that because your mind instantly makes the leaps from reading the comment to evaluating it based on your experience and knowledge to judging it to be an incorrect conclusion to assigning a reason for me to have made an obviously incorrect statement. You are able to do that because your mind doesn’t need to spell out all the steps along the way.
My middle son is a math whiz but you wouldn’t know it from his grades. He’d look at a problem and say “the answer is six, duh.” He hated going through all the Micky Mouse of writing down the steps to prove the answer; it was blindly obvious to him and how could anybody not see that? What, are you stupid?
I’m not as fast as him. I have to write down the numbers, draw the boxes, carry the ones . . . it’s slow but it’s the only way I can get to the correct solution. I’m not more stupid than him, I’m just slower.
Maybe our problem, John, is that I keep insisting you show your work so I can follow your leaps of logic, and maybe you find my requests infuriating so you assume I’m stupid.
You may be right, I may be stupid. Or maybe you’ve made an error in one of the steps and reached the wrong conclusion. The only way to know for certain is to review the steps.
That’s also why I keep mentioning logical fallacies. Look, humans have been arguing since the dawn of time. The same mistakes in reasoning keep coming up, and those mistakes keep leading people to incorrect conclusions, and acting on those incorrect conclusions keeps producing suboptimal results. Mistakes of reasoning have been going on so long and are made so frequently that the mistakes now have names such as Ad Hominem or Post Hoc Ergo Prompter Hoc. Knowing the names isn’t important; avoiding the mistakes is important, else the train of logic derails and reaches a false conclusion.
I’ve spent more than 40 years learning the most common mistakes, analyzing arguments step-by-step to ensure I avoid making those mistakes, and teaching others how to avoid making them, too. I realize my plodding pace is frustratingly slow. But every time I’ve pointed out an error in reasoning, my purpose has not been to insult or belittle, but to show the existence of a mistake, the consequence of making the mistake, and how correcting the mistake changes the outcome.
As for your claim that Mitch has posted some of my BS comments here, you’re certainly correct. For example, as far as I know, Governor Walz has not actually issued an Executive Order requiring all Minnesotans to flap their arms like a chicken before entering any grocery story, to prevent the spread of the Covid-19 virus. He might as well have, it’s no sillier than his endless fondling “the dials.”
But going forward, if you think something I’ve written is BS, I’m going to need you to explain to me why my answer is wrong and your answer is right. I’m going to need you to show your work so I can understand how you reached your conclusion. Can you do that, please?
Joe, I think it’s high character of you to keep trying to re peg the conversation to normal tones.
We had a discussion in your GME post where, I’m going to pick a number, I’ll say litrally 40 details and articles and explanations were provided to show that Robinhood having a capital requirement imposed on them was an organic thing arising out of their regulatory ecosystem. You choose to ignore it all in favor of your ipso facto Infowars quality fantasy that it was a product of ‘Bidenism’.
Joe, it seems Faphammer just can’t quit you, bro. The implications of that, knowing his penchant for homoerotic fantasies is quite off putting, not gonna lie. The fact he is so intimidated by your superior intellect is classic case of lack of self esteem; it pretty common among leftist slobs….He’s probably got a little “Joe Doakes” doll that he excoriates as he abuses himself “I *am* smarter than you”, I dunno but it’s not out of the realm of possibilities.
But we all understand that being the subject of an obsessed, degenerate, cyber stalker could happen to anyone.
I don’t know, JK, “To virtue signal as a liberal is to be in the affluent wing and take easy, performative, and kinda absurd stances on things that have no practical import while not chipping in on the larger progressive goals that require sacrifice.”
Seems a bit too complex. I don’t think that it is a “broad thing socially.”
To virtue signal, to me, would be to signal that you have a virtue — the unspoken part being that it is virtue you do not really possess.
An analogy would be a guy who joins a marathon a hundred yards before the finish line. Is Winkler virtue signaling? Maybe, his disparaging the “well-connected” & then giving props to two major state employee unions is hypocritical, at least.
Joe, I think it’s high character of you to keep trying to re peg the conversation to normal tones.
It’s the mark of a high intellect, Faphammer. Personally, I think I’ve made it abundantly clear it’s a waste of time where leftist reprobates are concerned, but I admire Joe’s self restraint, despite his refusal to admit the fact we share a country with scumbags, such as yourself, that are not worthy of the slightest accommodation.
Hey Tom Swift – fuck you little man
Do you have your little “Tom Swift” doll there, Faphammer? Are you abusing yourself while you curse it? Any luck beating that AWOL testicle into place? That’s probably a blessing, old man. It’s probably shriveled to the size of a grain of rice by now, anyway.
Can’t speak for the personalities in your head, but I’m guessing the “Tom Swift” identity is not pleased with the proceedings.
Ha ha, you sure are fooling people Tom.
Is your little Tom doll behaving now, Faphammer? Any sign of that missing testicle?
In important news, Newsmax is reporting that Trump has been absolved, and the leftist clown car is #sad.
It’s very satisfying when you have the opportunity to use your enemies heads to wipe your ass. I’m hoping for many such opportunities this summer.
Trump is the first back to back impeachment champ.
I’m rooting for a 3pete!
John, you think Gamestop was no big deal because of your personal experience in the markets, and also because you linked to nine financial writers who said it was no big deal and you believe them. Fine. It’s your right to believe who you want to believe and draw your own conclusions based on your own exerience.
I don’t believe those financial writers, not because I have superior knowledge about the markets, but because I found their explanation unpersuasive since nothing like it has ever happened during any previous short squeeze in history. I thought the whole deal smelled like “rules for thee but not for me” and showed the appearance of impropriety even if I couldn’t prove actual corruption.
We disagree on that one. It happens. Going forward, I hope to have civil discussions, both sides laying out their reasons and evidence and explaining their conclusions. I hope you’ll participate.
Mr. Kraephammer, No one is trying to open a corporate prison in Minnesota.
That is what makes his tweet moral posturing.
You know Joe, if by Tuesday you see people flapping their arms like chickens, you have only yourself to blame.
Please, don’t give him ideas.
MO, whether someone is trying to launch a corporate prison in MN is not the test of whether it’s a virtue signal. That’s not what a virtue signal is… you found out a day ago there is such a thing as a ‘virtue signal’, you’re not in a place to instruct anyone here about it.
AND…. CCA would come in and do it if there were a lease to get into and business to accept. That’s been established.
If this as a legislative goal is virtue signal by Winkler then castle doctrine as a legislative goal is a virtue signal by the gunnys. Mitch made a category error in a sloppy, lazy shitpost that he made because he’s a Drew Lee and Rob Doar fan boy.
End story
Joe Doakes; making nice with the midwit fucktards so you don’t have to.
Thanks, bro.
Attention tort lawyers:
Winkler says public safety is the responsibility of state govt. Feel free to use that tweet in your lawsuits to recover damages from last Summer’s black supremacist rioting and looting.
Also handy when suing the state for the car jacking, armed robberies and assaults committed by thugs who were given suspended sentences for earlier armed robberies and assaults because of the color of their skin. Be sure to name Winkler personally as a defendent.
Joe, “virtue signaling” is a great tag for leftist twits that want you to acknowledge what superior specimens of humanity they are, without their having to expend any personal effort.
We need to tag their penchant for waving their low cognitive functions and mental illness around in public like a flag.
Wearing a diaper on their faces hits both characteristics at once. They wear it to show everyone how much they care, while proving their impressive stupidity.
Maybe we coukd call them the “Depends-ables”
“you found out a day ago there is such a thing as a ‘virtue signal’, you’re not in a place to instruct anyone here about it.”
You are the person that came up with some crazy definition of “virtue signaling” you claimed was “out there.”
In your definition, “virtue signaling” was a thing that could only be done by liberals. That is laughable.
In your definition, “virtue signaling” was a thing that could only be done by liberals. That is laughable.
That is patently false, MO.
You *might* have called some behaviors by conservative Americans “virtue signaling” as recently as 1990, had such things as pride of country, Western culture and civilization been identified as such, but they were simply things we all pretty much shared in common.
But in the current year, those things are not “virtuous”, they are the mark of White supremacy and racism.
Proud to be an American? You’re a Nazi.
Amazed by the civilization we built? You didn’t build that, Proud Boy white supremacist.
Love your family? Dedicated to raising your kids? Bigoted fascist.
Take pride in accomplishing goals? Goals are a White construct, meant to keep blacks in poverty.
Since the concept of “virtue signaling” is and was always a leftist construct, it is patently impossible for people on the right to engage in it.
MO, whether someone is trying to launch a corporate prison in MN is not the test of whether it’s a virtue signal. That’s not what a virtue signal is.
Vigorously saying one is against something, and filing potemkin legislation against that thing, when it doesn’t exist and is unlikely to ever exist, solely to make headlines to curry favor among those for whom that thing is unpopular is pretty much textbook virtue signaling.
AND…. CCA would come in and do it if there were a lease to get into and business to accept. That’s been established.
Well, we’ve established a couple of huge “ifs” anyway.
If this as a legislative goal is virtue signal by Winkler then castle doctrine as a legislative goal is a virtue signal by the gunnys.
But the gun lobby isn’t introducing “Castle Doctrine”, because it’d be pointless and irrelevant, since it is already established in MInnesota under case law.
Mitch made a category error in a sloppy, lazy shitpost that he made because he’s a Drew Lee and Rob Doar fan boy.
Again – what on earth is that supposed to mean?
Rob is a good friend and stellar activist. Drew is a friend, although we work at competing stations (which is a weird situation for me), and host of a show that is ALMOST as good as mine, and that I VERY rarely get to listen to given I usually start working at 6AM these days.
And I’m not sure the word “shitpost” means what you think it means.
Not sure what point you’re trying to make, other than tossing around random and, truth be told, comical attempts at insults.
End story
On this blog, all stories end when I say they end.
I did in fact ask you a few questions up above. Care to answer them?