“Why do you need teh gun?” – Because it’s the duty of every law-abiding American to own and be proficient with firearms.
“You’re joking, right?” – Oh, sort of.
“You know what I think? I think gun owners are compensating for something?” – Oh, haha. Never heard that one before. Honest.
But no, you’re right. We’re compensating for the fact that our society is full of the depraved, the amoral and those that think their ends justify their means.
“Owning a gun is about teh fear!” – The same way buying insurance is about “fear” of fire or accidents, or the same way packing blankets and candles in your car is about “fear” of icy roads and blowing snow. In other words, baloney. It’s about responding prudently and reasonably to things about which one might be legitimately afraid.
“Aren’t gun owners just a bunch of teh flaby bald white guys?” – Sure, in the same sense that gay marriage proponents are a bunch of mincing, flouncing, buttless-chaps-wearing effeminate show-tune-singing poofters.
“Hey, that’s nothing but teh derogatory stereotype, designed to try to negate your opponents arguments by dehumanizing them without ever engaging any of teh facts!” – Bingo. The difference is, I don’t believe the thing about gay marriage proponents.
“But teh conservative GOP Senator with teh “A” rating from teh NRA said big clips are useless for hunting!” – Then that “conservative Senator” should get docked a few points. The 2nd Amendment doesn’t protect hunting!
“OK, smart guy, why does a citizen need a gun with teh big clip for?” – For starters, it’s only a “clip” if it “clips” the bullets together. Like this:
If it’s a metal box, like on an AK47 or an AR15 or a Glock, it’s called a “Magazine”.
Remember that and you’ll sound marginally less ignorant.
OK, now to answer your question – and I say this without acknowledging if I do or do not own one or more weapons with high-capacity magazines; if I do have them, I need them because the threat, out there – robbers, burglars, gang-bangers of all stripes – have them. Indeed, gun and magazine prohibitions make them more likely to have them.
Now, I don’t hunt, and I never likely will. But I am a self-defense shooter, and anti-gunner wives’ tales to the contrary, there have been cases when armed intruders and home invaders, whether high or highly motivated or both, have opted not to turn tail and run when the home/business owner fired six, seven, eight or ten shots. It’s happening often enough that most cops have not only traded in their six-shot revolvers for semi-auto handguns with 15-18 rounds, but retired their good ol’ shotguns for AR15s and M4s – fully-automatic assault rifles, not merely ugly “assault weapons” – in the trunk (leaving lots of surplus Remington 870 Express 12 gauges going for really nice prices at area gun shops!)
“So you think your life is as valuable as a cop’s?” – Yep.
“But robbereys like that hardly ever happin!” – Either do car crashes. But you wear your seatbelt, don’t you?”
“No! That’s what teh Police are for” – OK, then.
“But conservative Republican Joe Scarborough, who says he’s a member of teh NRA, says there’s no need for guns that can fire 30 shots in teh second!” – Joe Scarborough was a conservative in 1994. He makes vaguely Republican noises these days, on some issues. But it’s with this remark he not only shows why he can’t get a show on a real network, but that he must be one of those rare NRA members that knows nothing about firearms. Guns that “fire 30 shots a second”, fully-automatic firearms like machine guns, submachine guns and real honest-to-pete military Assault Rifles, have been illegal for most citizens since 1934.
“But killings with assault weapons are out of control!” – As usual, no. Murder in general dropped 14% in the past four years, and the drop among firearms deaths led all others. And out of 10,000 or so firearms homicides in, say 2007, 358 involved rifles, which is down sharply since the mid-20002, and about a quarter of the 1,704 knife murders, not to mention much much lower than the 540 involving blunt objects, or the 745 people killed with fists and hands. And I’m going to bet that the vast majority of those were not legally purchased, by the way.
“Well, you are kidding yourself! No citizen has ever stopped teh mass murdor!” – Sure they have. I listed the ones I could find here. And those were just the cases where the authorities said in as many words “there was a mass shooting incident underway”, which they usually won’t if it stops before anyone’s hurt. Check it out.
“Well, you are teh coward. A real man doesn’t need teh gun and I’m proud of it!” – Well, that’s your choice. Go for it. In fact, take that feeling to the next level. Put one of these in your front window.
No, seriously – your masters have decreed it, so you have no choice. Put your ass, and your family’s safety, where your precious little mouth is. Deal?
Get right on that!
“Well, it’s time to have a conversation about guns” – We’ve been having one for almost forty years. And the gun-grabber side lost. And they’ll lose this time too, because outside the self-referential, self-adoring, rhetorically-onanistic lefty cluster-cuddle between the media, the alt-media, academia and the lefty wonk class, most of America has been convinced that you’re wrong.
Which doesn’t mean people like me – law-abiding citizens who believe in and practice the Second Amendment – are going to stop working to keep the battle won.
Because we’re always “having a conversation about guns”. It’s just that you want the other side, my side, to shut up and let you do all the talking.
And as much as you’d like that, I for one decline. Thanks.
I’d add: “No one needs an assault rifle”
Need has nothing at all to do with it, and ones perception of “need” is purely subjective.
That argument would be no different from saying people speed on our highways, and in some cases it is a threat to safety, so therefore no one “needs” a Maserati, it naturally follows we should ban Maseratis.
Personally I feel a “need” for an assault rifle more than a “need” for a Maserati.
I think we need to consult the crime statistics for more information. I am certain that, once those “No guns permitted on these premises” signs went up, there was never another convenience store or liquor store holdup in Minnesota, right? Hasn’t been one since?
adrian, I’ll bet a Maserati was responsible for this:
http://www.unionleader.com/article/20121219/NEWS/121219090
“Their only children were supposed to be going to a sleepover with their aunt, Marci Thibault, but instead, she pulled over on the side of Interstate 495 in Lowell, Mass., and intentionally walked them into oncoming traffic.”
Here there be monsters.
Do you realize that there are people freely walking amongst us, unidendifiable during the Birkenstock off season, that will not admit the humanity of gestitating babies in order to justify the brutal murder of said same?
Many of these same “people” (scare quotes are legitimate until someone proves *their* human lineage) not only condone, but actively abet the theft (by swindle and fraud) of the most precious gift society bestows upon children (those that successfully run the gauntlet a womb has become)…. an education? That is to say, these “people” are perfectly comfortable sending (other people’s) children out to the streets completely unprepared to lead anything more than a life of constant struggle, strife and deep poverty.
And I’d be remiss if I didn’t point out that these “people” readily resort to mob violence and destruction of property when political policies are enacted that threaten their power.
Don’t know about you, but as long as we share a country with “people” like that, I’ll be needing reliable protection.
swiftee wrote: “Do you realize that there are people freely walking amongst us, unidendifiable during the Birkenstock off season, that will not admit the humanity of gestitating babies in order to justify the brutal murder of said same?”
__
Just tell them the school shootings are 21st trimester abortions. They should be just fine with that.
I’m looking for any sort of intellectual honesty or consistency from the left here, which I realize is a vain hope.
The American Rifleman, the NRA’s monthly publication, usually includes about a dozen recent instances, nationwide, where the owners of legal firearms prevented crimes. The information is obtained from “mainstream media.”
It is difficult to say who stopped a “mass shooting” because if it were stopped, it did not happen. While most mass killings seem to have been planned, some are not. Many armed criminals have the potential to kill multiple people if things go bad. Unless they are stopped first. How many do not occurr out of the fear of armed retaliation? I do not mean the police. By necessity, they are usually minutes away.
Thank you, Adrian, for addressing the “need” issue. It is one of the first steps in violating a person or groups rights. I do not understand the need for a golfer to have more than one clup. All you are doing is hitting a ball around. In fact, if the game were played with hockey sticks. This issue is the most frightening.
The public good issue could also be applied to certain sexual practices between men. They certainly don’t need to engage in them. It is impossible for them to reproduce between themselves. These acts are purely for selfish pleasure and are the primary cause of the AIDS epidemic which threatens everyone, even those who don’t engage in these practices. They can express their love in other ways. Or for that mater, smoking, drinking, owning more than one motor vehicle, etc. “If it saves just one life …”
“Conservatives” abandoning the NRA and gun owners should be no surprise. Despite receiving millions of dollar and votes from “gun people”, they lost. Like the homosexuals are to the democrats, so is the gun lobby to the republicans. Useful idiots who served their purpose. I believe Chris Christie was the first republican to jump ship. Not about guns, but the intent was the same. Anyone hear a rooster crowing? Three times?
Unrelated but congratulations to President Obama. He was just named Time Magazine’s Person of the Year. Again. I think a second Nobel Prize is also in order.
A few years ago, there was a study released by two well respected criminologists, conducted on criminals the were incarcerated due to violent crimes. The bottom line of the study was that these criminals feared an armed citizen more than they feared the police! A very telling statistic that the lame stream has conveniently ignored.
It was a survey of Federal lifers at Marion, Illinois. The survey’s a few years old. I wish someone would do it again, since there are a LOT more gun around and about now than when they did the original survey.
I need to find that reference.
Mitch;
The two guys that conducted and wrote the survey results were Peter Rossi and James D. Wright. It’s actually older than I thought – late 80s. It was titled “Armed and Considered Dangerous, A Survey of Felons and Their Firearms.”
Boss – I’ve heard criminals didn’t fear being shot themselves… they feared being near the person the shooter was shooting at as most people (including cops) are such poor shots.
I have to ask, Mitch – what is “teh”?
While the number of guns has changed, so did the gun owner and criminal.
Gun owners as a whole now learn towards the tactical rather than historical or sporting (hunting, plinking, target shooting). Until recently, the criminal might get his head blown off by the homeowner with a deer rifle or a 1911 Colt .45 like dad’s. Now, the homeowner is more often armed with the purpose of defending her/himself or their family and prepared to light up a predator with his AR or her tactical 870.
Now days criminals seem less likely to fear being shot, killed, or incarcerated. Either through media glamorization or a feeling of hopelessness, the new predator is more feral and has a greater sense of invincibility.
Humble opinions …
Both dynamics have changed. A valid survey of both sides would be fascinating.
Adam Lanza was an unsuccessful man in a successful family; his inability to function in school or find a job made him dependent on his mother, which made him hate himself and his mother. He would never grow up to be a success like his father. Other than the form of his violent outburst, he is typical of many unsuccessful young men of his generation.
His mother liked to buy guns, and liked to go to a range and shoot them. That does not make her insane, obsessive, or violent. That she did not recognize the instability of her son was clearly her fault — she should have sought help much earlier. Instead she cloistered him in her house, smothered him with attention, and allowed his problems to fester. Blind to his increasing rage and madness, she took no sensible precautions to isolate him from her guns, which was criminally irresponsible.
Are people who own fancy cars addicted to cars? Are dog owners addicted to dogs? Are people who buy new Ipads every year addicted to Apple products? Guns are just another consumer product. Just like the owner of a speedy sports car, owning a gun puts the burden of responsibility on the gun owner to keep it secure and safe. But we don’t ban sports cars because someone killed someone else with their dangerous driving machine. Owning a gun doesn’t make someone a killer anymore than owning a sports car, but both must take responsibility for the use of their toys. Americans accept that their gun hobby results in more gun deaths. I don’t think this case will change that.
A couple comments have indicated that criminals don’t fear being shot.
While some media sensationalized stories might make that appear to be the case, in most instances criminals are cowards and narcissistic.
In many of the cases of senseless mass shootings, it is entirely possible the criminal feared being shot and only injured and/or subsequently caught. In the case of the Newtown CT school shooting, the shooter offed himself as police were closing in. In the Portland mall shooting, the shooter took himself out when he saw an armed citizens firearm.
“she took no sensible precautions to isolate him from her guns”
Do we really know that? I have not read any description of how weapons were stored in the household. We just know that she was shot, apparently while sleeping, in her home and the shooter stole her weapons.
Even if she kept her guns locked up, the shooter lived in the house. While she was sleeping, he might have been able to access her keys and and then the storage facility. She may have taken sensible precautions, that, unfortunately, were inadequate.or ineffective.
Nearly every ” keep locked up” scenario is predicated on the seeker of that which is secured, not knowing where the access device is kept. Just as children, if they have the desire, eventually they figure out where the key to the liquor cabinet is, they can figure out where the key to the gun safe is, if they are observant.
My gun “hobby” has not resulted in any deaths, nor did my fathers before me. Nor is it the case for millions of “hobbyists.”
The LRT has caused more deaths than all of my gun owning family combined, going back 3 generations.